Transcript - Skynews AM Agenda - 5 Feb
05 Feb 2009
Transcipt Kieran Gilbert:
Senator, why didn't the Government give the Coalition more time? It does seem to be very rushed. We know things need to be urgent, but jeez, it's 48 hours. That's nothing.
Senator David Feeney:
Well I think the Liberal Party was desperate that we gagged the debate, and the fact that the debate went through till 5:30 this morning, there were 28 speakers, 28 questions in question time, the fact that we had one of the longest debates is testament to the fact that both sides have had their say, and the Rudd Government was perfectly happy for the debate to be had.
Kieran Gilbert:
It's such a big package. Normally you'd have weeks to look through and pore over the detail.
Feeney:
But urgency is critical here. The Government has to act. We can balance the fact that the Parliament has to be heard with the fact that urgent action needs to be taken. I mean the fact that what we have in Kevin Rudd is a Leader, a Prime Minister who's got the nerve to take the action that needs to be taken. And what we have in the Opposition is a party that is inexplicably opposed to a stimulus package and thereby setting itself apart from what is happening in the rest of the world and in main stream economics.
Kieran Gilbert:
That's true isn't it? I mean the IMF and various other economists are saying we need a stimulus and urgently and you're standing against that...
Christopher Pyne MP:
Well Kieran, I think the point you made it your initial question to David was absolutely correct. We don't need to rush this package. The Opposition does believe in a stimulus package, but the Government has been preparing this package for obviously a little bit of time. The Prime Minister came in on Tuesday with an entirely prepared text. He had a book that had been printed. He expected the Opposition, in an hour and a half, to give a detailed response, and get on board without any prior knowledge that this package was going to be put together. If the Government was genuine about putting together a package and working in a bipartisan way, why wouldn't they have been speaking to Malcolm Turnbull in the last fortnight and getting his ideas about stimulus and seeing what he'd be prepared to support? But they didn't do that because they didn't want to engage with the Opposition...
Kieran Gilbert:
These are extraordinary times though aren't they?
Pyne:
Of course they are extraordinary times. It's time for the Prime Minister to reach across the table and work with the Opposition Leader. Malcolm Turnbull's made that offer. If these times are so extraordinary why is the Prime Minister behaving in such a politically partisan way?
Kieran Gilbert:
He is putting in the boot: there is no Obama-style partisanship here Senator?
Feeney:
Well I think what we've got here, this brings out the fascinating point, and that is, if the Liberal Party are not arguing about the detail, they're not concerned about particular provisions, they're opposed to a stimulus package...
Pyne:
No, that's not correct.
Feeney:
...it's not the detail these guys are complaining about. They're opposed to the action of engaging a stimulus package...
Pyne:
No, that's completely untrue. We believe in a stimulus package. We've put up our own alternatives and we'll flesh those out in the days and weeks ahead. We're not against a stimulus package: what we are against though is running up a $200 billion debt for our children and our grandchildren and probably our great grand children to have to pay back. We're against saddling future generations with an enormous debt and deficit. You can do it sensibly and in a measured way, in a smaller way, and quite so urgently and rushed without putting such an enormous burden on future generations.
Kieran Gilbert:
Are you worried Senator that down the track this message that Christopher Pyne and Malcolm Turnbull are articulating will have resonance down the track when the deficit is larger, but when people have forgotten about where they have spent their $950 that this message of fiscal rectitude is going to have resonance at that time?
Feeney:
That's clearly the cynical low road the Liberal Party is going to take...
Pyne:
What? Fiscal rectitude, cynical?
Feeney:
They aren't the political markers guiding the Government's action. The Government has to take this action. A stimulus package is required. As you say the IMF is recommending a stimulus package that is 2% of GDP should be engaged by in every developed country. We've seen that now in China, the UK in the US and of course you're seeing it here. And the lessons of the 1920s, the lessons of the 1930s, which have been learned by everyone in the world, except in the Liberal Party, are that in moments like this you need to have an expansionist position from the public sector, you need to stimulate demand. This is a Government that is doing what is responsible, in fact the economically conservative thing to do. That's why regardless of political colours what every Government in the world is doing.
Kieran Gilbert:
Is this message designed for twelve months down the track? Obviously you're going to cop a bit of flack in the short term. Is this what Mr Turnbull is looking at?
Pyne:
What I find remarkable about David's statement is that the suggestion now is that the opposition is being a populist party because we're opposing this stimulus package. The reality is we will take a political hit because we're doing what will not be popular in the public's mind. They would like to get those cash payments. They would like to have that spending on schools and infrastructure, of course they would, so this will be an unpopular decision. Our position is the courageous position because at least one political party in this country and the one with the record of being fiscally rectitudinous should continue to be so, should continue to do what is right, not what is popular. Now Kevin Rudd and Wayne Swan in their panic, in their panic because the December package didn't work, have rushed out another package in February...
Kieran Gilbert:
In December we saw the retail trade figures...
Pyne:
There was another 300 basis point drop in interest rates over that period, so whether the 300 basis point drop would have had a dramatic impact on the incomes in people's pockets...
Feeney:
Fiscal and monetary policy working side by side. I don't think Chris and the Liberal Party are engaging in a populist action here. I think they're engaging in an ideological action here. And when you boil it down, the Labor Party believes that the economy exists for the prosperity of its citizenry and the citizenry are blood and bone for the economy...
Pyne:
No, we believe in surplus budgets if possible and low deficits. We believe in conservative fiscal discipline...
Feeney:
... How can you hang onto that position regardless of what's happening in the world?
Pyne:
The easy way out here Kieran is to spend as much money as you can lay your hands on even if it means running up a $200 billion credit card debt, that's the easy thing to do, that doesn't take much effort. Mark Arbib, the New South Wales Labor Senator, apparently advised the Government to do that late last year, not to be frightened of going into deficit, now they've gone well into it. The easy thing to do was to say let's spend as much money as we can rather than actually make the tough decisions. Well the Opposition is prepared to step up to the plate. Malcolm Turnbull is prepared to make the tough decisions. That's why he's the kind of person who should be Prime Minister of Australia, and Kevin Rudd is showing, in fact, he's all spin and no substance.
Kieran Gilbert:
Okay on to the substance of it - how this is going to be delivered? The government is going to rely on the states to deliver a lot of this. The states are here today, the Leaders of the states and territories. Senator Feeney, what hope is there that some of those states are going to deliver this? They're struggling to deliver anything at the moment. They're appalling!
Feeney:
Well irrespective of that reasonably serious judgement on your part...
Kieran Gilbert:
Reasonably serious! The approval rating, for example, the NSW Government is record lows, and it is obviously a disaster... How are they going to deliver this?
Feeney:
There are obviously serious challenges in New South Wales ...
Pyne:
That was a very lovely understatement Senator Feeney.
Feeney:
Quite right: diplomacy. The Prime Minister has made absolutely clear, in ruthless terms I might say, that he's going to insist and require the states play their parts in this role, and if they don't then the monies they might otherwise access won't be available to them.
Kieran Gilbert:
That's no vote of confidence - that's if you don't do this we'll give you a whack. What sense is there that they're actually going to be able to do this?
Feeney:
As they would understand, they do understand, I expect regardless of political colour, state legislatures will understand that this is absolutely in their interest, because Australia is in this together, and of course that is part of the beauty of Labor's plan, because although Chris and the Liberal Party will try and characterise this as spending a lot of money on the credit card..
Pyne:
You are.
Feeney:
..to paint rocks, what we're engaging is serious nation building. Our plan is at the end of this process we've not only introduced a stimulus package, we've not only stimulated demand, but the country comes out of it at the end with some pieces of infrastructure, some piece of building blocks for the education revolution for instance, which are critical, so in fact we're asset building, we're nation building at the same time that we're stimulating our economy to get through what is clearly a great challenge.
Kieran Gilbert:
The only Liberal Government in the nation is backing the comments made there. Colin Barnett the Liberal Premier, he's pleased with this money...
Pyne:
Sure, as Paul Keating famously said, not that I agree with very much Paul Keating ever said or did, but he did famously say ‘never stand between a Premier and a bucket of money'. I mean it would be a very brave Premier to do that on this occasion... I am concerned about the delivery of the actual infrastructure and projects by the states, but I'm not just concerned about the states. In Computers in Schools and Trades Training Centres , the Computers in Schools is now costing $2 billion with it was meant to cost $1 billion. It was meant to be one computer for every child, it's now one for every two. Trade Training Centres was meant to be rolled out in all 2650 secondary schools: there are 34 after 18 months if this Government, so it's not just the States that can't manage their resources. Their Federal Government hasn't proved itself to be very good managers of money either.
Kieran Gilbert:
You're Shadow Education, what is your message to all the various people in schools around the country?
Pyne:
We believe that the Investing in our Schools program of the Howard Government was the best program for schools. We should return the Investing in our Schools program which was abolished by the Rudd Government. We should expand that. We should treble it and allow Principals who are autonomous the capacity to make sensible decisions about what's good for their schools.
Kieran Gilbert/Feeney:
(question on whether the stimulus package will get through Senate.)
Kieran Gilbert:
Christopher Pyne, just finally: you're good friends with Peter Costello. He's given his first speeches to Parliament since this Parliament began. What's he doing?
Pyne:
I think he's representing his constituents in Higgins. He's engaging in the political process. He is a member of the House of Representatives after all, and I'm delighted to see him doing so...
Kieran Gilbert:
(Inaudible) Leadership front?
Pyne:
Peter Costello is doing his job as the Member for Higgins. We welcome him doing it, and hope he renominates when the preselection comes around.