Transcript - Radio National - 9 June 2010

SUBJECTS: Australian Defence Force Deaths in Afghanistan; Labor Fear Campaign; This Week's Nielsen Poll

Fran Kelly: And our two regular pollies join us now. Financial Services Minister, Chris Bowen and Shadow Education Minister, Christopher Pyne. Gentleman, good morning.

Chris Bowen: Good morning Fran, good morning Christopher.

Christopher Pyne: Good morning Fran, good morning Chris.

Kelly: Can we start this morning on the rather sombre topic of Afghanistan? Because we've seen this week the deadliest day for Coalition forces in Afghanistan and two Australian soldiers killed by a roadside bomb. Yesterday, Defence Minister, John Faulkner warned us all that Afghanistan could become even more violent over coming months. Can I ask you, Chris Bowen, are you worried about public opinion and public support for our commitments to Afghanistan?

Bowen: Well, of course any deaths such as these two do touch the nation's heartstrings. I think the population understand and accept this is a war worth fighting; that there will be casualties along the way and that is a great tragedy. But it is all designed to avoid greater numbers of casualties and this is at the epicentre of our efforts to make the world a safer place. And I think our hearts would all go out to the familles of the soldiers yesterday. Two young men who've had their lives cut short, and I think the nation understands that these are inevitable casualties of what is a very difficult situation in Afghanistan. I think they'll continue to understand that.

Kelly: Christopher Pyne, your leader, Tony Abbott, has said in the fairly recent past that the Coalition would consider moor troops to Afghanistan. Do you think that would be a popular move?

Pyne: I don't think it would be a popular move, Fran.

Kelly: Do you think it's the right move?

Pyne: It might be the right decision. If we win the election in the coming months, that's a matter that the new Defence Minister will discuss with the Defence Chiefs and Tony Abbott and the Foreign Minister and so forth.

This is an age old question; of course I joined Chris Bowen in giving my deepest sympathies to the families of the young men who've been killed, which is a terrible tragedy. But the age old question President Kennedy used to pose was whether totalitarian regimes would always beat democracies because democracies have respect for human life and totalitarian regimes don't. It's been proven in the past that democracies can be much more resilient than we give them credit. And we usually do end up winning. And my view is in Afghanistan we mustn't lose our resolve and mustn't allow the Taliban or the terrorists to win. And while that will mean tragedies on scales like the one we've seen in the last 48 hours we have to redouble our efforts and ensure that freedom and liberty is successful and dictatorship is not.

Kelly: Tony Abbott will have a hand in future policy if you win the next election. Chris Bowen, the Neilson Poll this week shows Labor absolutely tanking in the polls. When you read those numbers in the Fairfax press on Monday, what did you think?

Bowen: Well, it was a disappointing poll for the Government. No doubt about that. We've known for some time we've been going through a difficult period and if that poll were to translate, we'd lose the election. There's no doubt about that. Tony Abbott would become Prime Minister. Warren Truss would replace Julia Gillard as Deputy Prime Minister. Julie Bishop would be in charge of our place in the world and Barnaby Joyce would be sitting around the cabinet table making big decisions.

Kelly: You say that as though you think it's going to scare the voters away. Is that what you're trying to do?

Bowen: No, it's a fact. They're the alternative team. The election is a choice between alternatives. I don't think there's anything wrong with running through who the Opposition Frontbench is, because I do think it's a risky proposition. I think the Labor Party massively outguns the Opposition in terms of its leadership team, and I don't think it's inappropriate in any way to point that out; that the polls are showing us losing an election and these are the people who will be taking over. We have a record of achievement that we're happy to point to. We will have a forward program which we'll be talking about during the election campaign and it's also about the Australian people making a choice. Who do you want in charge if there's another global financial crisis? Who do you want picking up the phone and taking the calls? Kevin Rudd and Wayne Swan, or Tony Abbott and Joe Hockey? The people who got us through the last Global Financial Crisis or the people who think we should follow New Zealand's lead; have a year full of recession. And that's the choice the Australian people will make a judgment on later in the year.

Kelly: Christopher Pyne, how did you react from that line coming from the Government in the wake of that poll and do you think the Coalition should be nervous about its line-up?

Pyne: Well, I simply make the point, Fran that there are five former cabinet ministers in the Tony Abbott line-up, which is four more than was in the Rudd line-up when they were elected three years ago. And I'd simply pick up the theme of Chris Bowen. If the Rudd Government is re-elected, Peter Garrett will continue to implement programs like the Pink Batts program, Julia Gillard will continue to have oversight over the School Hall Rip-off, Chris Evans will continue to be protecting our borders under the Boat People program, Penny Wong will continue to be implementing the now non-existent Emissions Trading Scheme, and the list is endless. Chris Bowen himself, of course; I suppose he'll be breathing life back into Fuelwatch and Grocerywatch.

This Government doesn't have a record of achievement. It has a record of incompetence and failure. And I think it would be very much to the Opposition's advantage to put up people like our Cabinet against the Rudd Government Cabinet, which has been an unmitigated failure; worse than Whitlam.

Kelly: Ok, let's hear now from one of your colleagues, Andrew Robb is a former minister, he's a former Liberal Party Director, these days he's Shadow Finance Minister. Speaking yesterday about how the voters see Kevin Rudd:

Grab (Andrew Robb): I think what we're seeing happen is that people voted for Kevin Rudd in good faith, with high expectations, and they've been disillusioned in the extreme. Yet they still voted for him. You know, in many respects, they'd like him to perform. In my view, by parking a vote with the Greens, they are trying to send him a message, and if he doesn't get the message they will come, a lot of them, I think will come to us.

Kelly: Chris Bowen, do you agree voters want the PM to do better? I guess the question is can he do better?

Bowen: Well, I think the fact is this, Fran. We came to office with an ambitious agenda. We set out to do a lot. And despite Chris's spin and rhetoric, we've achieved a lot. We've got a good, solid record of achievement. Not only getting us through the Global Financial Crisis, but we can point to the National Curriculum, Trade Training Centres, health reform, more nurses and GPs being trained; all those things we can point to.

But we accept we haven't met everything we set out to do and the public are frustrated about that and are sending us the message that going forward they'd like us to continue to work on our ambitious agenda. And there are some people that say we set out to do too much. That's a matter of opinion for some people, but we did set out to do a lot. And we have done a lot, but we haven't achieved everything we set out to do. There has been a lot of Opposition obstructionism in the Senate. The Greens have opposed our agenda. We've had, of course, trouble in Copenhagen, but we've argued our agenda and we've achieved a lot. Now, people.....

Kelly: Is arguing the agenda, perhaps, is the problem? I mean, do you concede that the Prime Minister, for whatever reason, seems to have trouble connecting, or that dreadful phrase, cutting through with the electorate?

Bowen: No, I don't, Fran. And I think the commentariat is sometimes, frankly, a little bit fickle about this. It's not so long ago that we had the great health debate down at the National Press Club where the Prime Minister comprehensively out communicated Tony Abbott against all expectations. And I concede, again it comes back to (inaudible). Tony Abbott is good at a sound grab, he's good at spin and he's good at getting a line up. I concede that. But when the pressure is on, he's very light on detail and the substance isn't there. I point to the health debate. I point to the week after the budget when the Opposition budget reply made the Keystone Cops look like Scotland Yard. It just showed, frankly, that they're not ready for Government.

Kelly: Ok.

Bowen: We had Tony Abbott saying, "Joe Hockey will get back to you shortly," then Joe Hockey saying, "Andrew Robb will get back to you shortly," then we had the disastrous press conference from Andrew Robb. And it just shows that when it comes to communicating substance and detail, the Opposition is simply not ready for the task of Government.

Kelly: Christopher Pyne, the latest polls do consistently seem to indicate that the voters seem to back up Chris Bowen and what he's said there because they're not coming in behind Tony Abbott are they? He's just as unpopular in the recent Nielson Poll as the Prime Minister.

Pyne: Well, I think Chris Bowen sounded like a Government that's run out of ideas and run out of puff and full of excuses and now of course running a fear campaign against the Opposition.

Kelly: Well, why aren't the voters flocking to Tony Abbott then?

Pyne: But, that's what Government's do after they've been in power for a long time, and they've run out of new plans. I mean, Chris Bowen as already reverted to a scare campaign against the Opposition because the Government's broken 57 promises since before the last election and hasn't delivered.

Kelly: Ok, but I'm coming back with all of that, what about Tony Abbott? Why aren't the voters warming to him yet? Will they want him?

Pyne: Well, I mean, I don't want to be a commentator on the polls, Fran. The reality.....

Kelly: Go on.

Pyne: The polls speak for themselves. The AC Neilson Poll was a very good poll for the Opposition. What it proves is that the public have lost a lot of faith in the Rudd-Gillard Government. But Opposition Leaders don't usually poll very high ratings, especially Opposition Leaders that are facing first elections after a Government has lost. Kevin Rudd was extremely popular before the last election, but we were going into our 12^th year of being in Government. The most amazing part about the polls is how unpopular the Prime Minister has become and how quickly. It was only last December that he was still at stratospheric heights of popularity, and that's because he has let people down so badly and he doesn't seem to listen. I mean, Peter Walsh's attack on the Labor Party on the front page of the Australian today about how the greatest obstacle to consultation and good government in this country is Kevin Rudd is devastating.

Kelly: Ok.

Pyne: He was a former Finance Minister in the Hawke Government.

Kelly: I'm going to interrupt you because it's that time again when we have to wind up; last word to Chris Bowen. You're heading off to Perth for a Community Cabinet Meeting tonight. The Government's support in WA has crashed according to the Nielson Poll, off the back of the mining tax. Can you give us sense of whether you think there will be a compromise on the mining profits tax before the election?

Bowen: Well, no doubt the situation in Western Australia is quite (inaudible), Fran. This is about the national interest. Sometimes politicians get accused of putting short term interests ahead of long term interests. I don't think anyone could accuse us of doing that in relation to Resource Super Profits Tax, because it is not easy politics. It's very hard politics, but its important policy.

No doubt, the situation in Western Australia tonight could get quite (inaudible), and there'll be protests and all sorts of things organised by the mining lobby. But we'll stick to what we've said which we is think this is an important reform for the future. We're more than happy to sit down with the mining industry and talk through their concerns, and as every major reform entails, do so in consultation with the industry. There are some people in the industry who think, "Well, we're not going to pay any more tax and we'll stop this tax and bring down the Government." Well, we're just going to continue with the reform process and we're more than happy to talk those elements through in terms of implementation and finer detail with the elements of the mining industry that are more than happy to do so.

Kelly: Do you ever get nervous about losing?

Bowen: I worry about every election all the time, Fran. We never take anything for granted, but I think our record for achievement and plan for the future will stand us in good stead.

Kelly: Chris Bowen, Christopher Pyne, thank you very much for joining us.

Pyne: Pleasure, thank you.

Bowen: Nice talking to you, Fran.

Ends.