Transcript - Radio National - 26 May 2010

SUBJECTS: Malcolm Fraser; Great big new tax on mining; Labor distractions

Christopher Pyne: ...the fact that he rid us of the Whitlam Government in 1975 which apart from the Rudd Government is one of the worst Government's Australia has ever had so I have a soft spot for Malcolm. I like how Malcolm has always been prepared to say it as he sees it and I think in your introduction where you said it was a long time coming I think that's probably true, it's disappointing but he's still a great figure of Australian politics, a living Australian treasure and I'm sorry he's decided to go but...

Fran Kelly: It's an inditement on the direction of you're party isn't it, the modern Liberal Party under Tony Abbott at the moment?

Pyne: No it's not. Malcolm Fraser has been critical of the Liberal Party probably for about twenty years if you go back in history...

Kelly: But he didn't resign until now...

Pyne: ...through one leader and another. Malcolm hasn't always liked the direction of the Liberal Party he didn't like it particularly when he was in Parliament, he of course launched a very public and scathing attack on John Gordon when he was the Prime Minister, so Malcolm has always been prepared to put his views forthrightly and I'm sorry to see him go but I still regard him as a great Australian and a good Liberal and 'thems the breaks' as they say.

Kelly: There's a difference between the parties isn't there Chris Bowen it's hard to imagine a former Labor Prime Minister ever quitting?

Chris Bowen: Well I guess there is but I think Fran there has been an almost sixty year battle in the Liberal Party of Australia between conservatives and Liberals and it is now a Liberal Party in name only. The conservatives have not only won the battle they have distributed salt on the fields of Liberalism and I argued almost two years ago in a article that the true small L Liberal Party in Australia is now the Labor Party and small L Liberal's, if they want to succeed in the Liberal Party have to (inaudible) themselves in conservatism and move to the right and I think that when you consider some of the great small L Liberal's of history, people who thrived under Malcolm Fraser, they would not be comfortable, not only in John Howard's Government but in Tony Abbott's Liberal Party and I think one of the reasons Malcolm Turnbull was turfed out of the leadership was that he tried to take the Liberal Party back to Liberalism and he failed and the Liberal Party dealt with him...they should probably rename themselves the conservative party...

Pyne: Well Fran, Chris Bowen would say that because the Labor Party are trying to get smaller L Liberal votes but the one example I'll give you is that Tony Abbott and the Liberal Party has the most generous Paid Parental Leave Scheme than the Labor Party...

Kelly: That's true...

Pyne: Our Paid Parental Leave Scheme is a more generous scheme for working women than the Labor Party introduced by Tony Abbott. We are still the party of both Liberal's and Conservatives we have amongst our ranks in senior positions people like me, George Brandis, Julie Bishop, Joe Hockey, Malcolm Turnbull, I mean the list is endless of smaller L Liberals and conservative liberal leaning people who are in the Liberal Party and senior roles of the party, Colin Barnett the Premier of Western Australia is another good example. I mean Will Hodgman, the Premier... was briefly almost the Premier of Tasmania, Leader of the Opposition in Tasmania - this is too a simplistic issue, too simplistic analysis by Chris Bowen...

Kelly: I'm sure there was nothing simplistic about Malcolm Fraser's thought processes he went to this move. Chris Bowen, Tony Abbott's pitched to his party room reportedly he was, and we heard him say this in fact, that in the Parliament in his budget reply speech that if you want to beat the Governments' Mining Super Profits Tax than you've got to throw out the Government. Now Andrew Forrest from Fortescue Minerals was saying the same thing yesterday in an interview, he said... the only way you'll be able to change the tax is to change the Government. These are high stakes with this tax aren't they?

Bowen: Well we are committed to this because it's important to the future of the nation, it's important to introduce a more equitable tax system one which means Australian's get their fair share of the minerals under the ground. We're not backing away from what we think is a very important long term economic reform, a reform which funds a massive boost in retirement incomes of Australians, which funds a corporate tax cut across the board. We're proposing a corporate tax cut across the board the Opposition is proposing a corporate tax increase so we think this is very important. In terms of the consultation, you don't need me to tell you Fran there's a consultation process going on about the implementation details...

Kelly: Some would say it's the wrong way around that you should have the consultation before you launch the tax...

Bowen: Well of course there was a lot of consultation as part of the independent tax review itself...

Kelly: Well the miners are saying they were just not asked...

Bowen: ...well we have a different view and the independent tax review has a (inaudible) but when you have any substantial tax reform you always have consultation about the implementation about the details, that's the way it's been for every substantial tax reform from living memory and this tax is no different and is very important, it's important in terms of the long term economic reform and long term economic reform is never easy never uncontroversial and you can rely on the Opposition to got he cheap political route and not support long term substantial reform.

Kelly: I think it's true to say that long difficult reform is never easy, it takes a concerted sales effort and a lot of commitment from the Government I would say it's not helped by claims to confuse or mislead let's hear a claim made by the Prime Minister Kevin Rudd in the Parliament this week about the Super Profits Tax and it's rise in the Superannuation Guarantee...

Prime Minister clip plays

Kelly: Now Chris Bowen that's not true is it? The mining profits tax is not going to pay for that lift in the Superannuation Guarantee from nine percent to twelve percent employers will pay that?

Bowen: It will Fran because when you increase the amount of money in superannuation from going from nine to twelve, you increase the size of the tax concession because superannuation in Australia attracts tax concessions, so by going from nine to twelve you actually have a substantial hit on the budget bottom line which needs to be funded by through the resource Super Profits Tax. And can I say the Liberal Party now accepts this because they have said that they will oppose the increase from nine to twelve and they will take the savings out of the increase in the tax concessions so they now accept, they've changed their position, so they now accept that it does have an impact on the budget bottom line and when it goes to twelve percent the impact on the budget bottom line will be 3.6 billion dollars a year. So there is a very clear link, Fran, that in relation to nine to twelve that's not to mention our return of the tax concession for low income earners, anyone under thirty seven thousand dollars will get (inaudible) tax back and our cash up for over fifties all funded through the Resources Super Profits Tax...

Kelly: Christopher Pyne your turn, what happens to the Liberal Party's position if through this consultation the miners are convinced there's an adjustment? Tony Abbott says the next election rises and falls on this, if the miners say yes to the Government that's your whole election pitch isn't it?

Pyne: Well Fran there are a couple of things to comment on. Number one is the total falsehood that the mining tax is in anyway linked to the superannuation increase from nine to twelve percent...

Kelly: Well we just heard Chris Bowen deal with that...

Pyne: Well Chris Bowen would say anything Fran. Do you deny that twenty billion dollars is being levied on small business and business generally to pay for the increase from nine to twelve percent? Twenty billion dollars is being levied on small business and business in general to pay for the nine to twelve percent. You completely managed to leave that out of that extraordinary explanation you put before, which you think will fool the Australian people, but I can tell you when small businesses start paying the nine to twelve percent they will know exactly who's paying for the super increase...

Kelly: Don't we know from past experience that it ends up being the workers themselves who pay that it's offset with wage increases or forgoing them?

Pyne: Well the Rudd Government needs to deal with that doesn't it Fran, I mean these are the other unintended consequences that the Rudd Government never actually thinks about when they introduce any of their policies. This mining tax is a dagger aimed at the heart of the Australian economy, you've described it and Chris Bowen described this morning as a reform .The Labor Party thinks a great big new tax on mining is a reform. That is the slackers way out which is the usual from Labor. They have run into budget problems, they have spent too much money, they have borrowed too much money, they have a massive deficit, they've thought what we'll do is we'll slap another great big new tax on an industry that we think is unpopular with the public. What they don't understand is that the Australian public know is that the mining industry is the basis for our extraordinary standard of living and if the mining industry packs up and decides not to invest, not to expand Olympic Dam or Prominent Hill or the iron ore projects in Western Australia all of our standards of living will suffer as a consequence...

Bowen: which prominent economists dealt with that this morning...

Pyne: Theoretically, let's deal with (inaudible) John Ralph, Tony Forrest (inaudible) Terry McCrann are all of these people liars or ignorant?

(Inaudible)

Kelly: OK you two I am going to stop you there because this is a perfect example of I think of what is going on in the political debate at the moment, you two are basically shouting at each other and the public can't make any sense of it. What is the public suppose to make of this debate because it's hard to get a clear sales pitch from all of you from either of you that isn't directly contradictory...

Pyne: Well our sales pitch is very clear Fran and that is if you elect a Coalition Government we will stop the mining tax.

Kelly: Ok Chris Bowen yours, you started this you should be able to sell us clear line and I think the public, clearly the polls show are not convinced what's wrong with your sales pitch?

Bowen: Well, we never expected it to be uncontroversial and always knew there would always be a very well resourced campaign against it, we knew the mining lobby would probably take out ads and that there would be claim and counter claim. I think the Australian people are interested in this debate, they are interested in getting a fair share out of the minerals beneath Australia's ground, their interested in the boost to Australia's retirement income which despite (inaudible) is very clearly linked, and the Liberal Party has accepted, very clearly linked to the Resources Super Profits Tax, they are interested in the corporate tax reductions. So Chris in this very studio talked about big business and how they can afford a tax slug, and you know two percent tax was appropriate and we were backing big business against the little guy and he has the temerity to accuse us of populism. We do have Fran a difficult job in explaining a big reform but we knew that and the big reform is in the national interest and we're not going to shy away from it...

Pyne: And our (inaudible) remains the same Fran if you vote for a Coalition Government we'll stop the mining tax, pretty easy to explain.

Kelly: Yeah we got that...

Bowen: Is that written down scripted or?

Pyne: Your sales pitch... you know couldn't sell a vacuum cleaner...

Kelly: OK let's go to one last issue before we leave today Christopher Pyne, Julie Bishop she is the Shadow Foreign Affairs spokesperson, she's come out and basically revealed intelligence secrets hasn't she? Is that appropriate, is she an appropriate person to be in this portfolio?

Pyne: Julie Bishop has put out a statement on that matter which deals with it and I haven't any more to add to that...

Kelly: Well did you hear it? We heard it this morning...

Pyne: I haven't seen the interview no...

Kelly: You haven't heard it?

Pyne: No I didn't see the interview but...

Kelly: Do you want to hear it?

Pyne: Sure if you want to play... you're in charge of the microphone, you've got the button...

Kelly: I wasn't planning to replay this but I think we've got it, let's have a listen...

(Julie Bishop clip plays)

Kelly: Christopher Pyne, I believe it has occurred, was that appropriate has she gone too far?

Pyne: Well Julie Bishop has put a statement out about that matter which deals with it and really I don't have anything further to add. She is an excellent Shadow Foreign Minister, she'll be a Foreign Minister in a Coalition Government, hopefully by the end of this year, and I have a great deal of support for Julie. Labor will do anything of course to distract everybody from the great big new tax on mining and they've been trying to do it all week including timing the expulsion of the Israeli diplomat for (inaudible)

Kelly: So just let me get this clear, you support Julie Bishop staying in that job that portfolio, until the election?

Pyne: Absolutely of course I do Julie Bishop is the Deputy Leader and an excellent Shadow Foreign Minister and a much better Foreign Minister in Government than Stephen Smith could ever be.

Bowen: This is very serious this is a pattern of behaviour on Julie Bishop's behalf of making outlandish statements and then denying she ever said it. This is a very serious National Security matter there is a long standing convention that neither side of politics comments on the operation of our intelligence agencies which Ms Bishop has breached and then denied breaching and it's clearly on tape and I think frankly it shows the risk that would become incumbent in her becoming the Foreign Minister of Australia in an Abbott Government and...

Kelly: Ok, but at the moment she is only the Shadow Foreign Minister but isn't Labor going for broke on this because it wants a distraction...

Bowen: Well she's the alternative Foreign Minister Fran, she is the alternative Foreign Minister and she may be the Foreign Minister by the end of the year as Christopher rightly points out so this is a very serious matter. When you're the Foreign Minister or The Treasurer of the Prime Minister what you say counts whether it's under pressure or in an interview you need to be able to keep your cool and say what you mean and not to say something that you can then say oh sorry I said it under pressure. This is a very important matter and it shows frankly that very senior members of the Opposition front bench are not up to the job and they are not ready for Government.

Kelly: Chris Bowen it was your week for the final word so that's it, Christopher Pyne and Chris Bowen thank you so much for joining us...

Pyne: It's a great pleasure.

Bowen: It's always fun.

Kelly: Christopher Pyne is the Shadow Education Minister and the Manager of Opposition in The House and Chris Bowen is a Cabinet Minister obviously in the Rudd Government.

ENDS