Transcript - Lateline ABC - 17 Feb 2009

TONY JONES, PRESENTER:

Here is a story on the failed attempt to draft Peter Costello into the Shadow Treasurer's job and the ongoing ramifications.

I'm joined now by the Opposition frontbencher Christopher Pyne. He's in our Parliament House studio. Thanks for being there.

HON CHRISTOPHER PYNE MP:

Pleasure. Good to be on.

TONY JONES:

OK, now, Joe Hockey said this morning that Peter Costello should be more active and that he can come on to the frontbench at any time. That's right, is it?

CHRISTOPHER PYNE:

Certainly. Brendan Nelson, when he was leader and Malcolm Turnbull, as the current leader, have both made it clear that Peter Costello would be a very important part of the Opposition armoury should he choose to come on to the frontbench. But he's made a decision to continue as the Member for Higgins as their local MP. That is of course the base job of every MP, and he's perfectly entitled to make that decision. But I don't think it's unusual he be offered.

TONY JONES:

Sure, but he can come onto the frontbench at any time that he wants - that's the situation, is it, as Mr Hockey expressed it?

CHRISTOPHER PYNE:

Well, Peter Costello is obviously a very important talent in the Opposition. He's been Treasurer for 11 1/2 years, he was deputy leader for about 13 years. So, obviously, he has tremendous skills and experience to offer. He's decided that he wants to stay as the local MP for Higgins. That's his primary job. He's serving them well. He's won many elections.

TONY JONES:

OK, well, we know that, but he can come on whenever he wants to the front bench, is that right?

CHRISTOPHER PYNE:

Oh, I don't think that's a very important point, Tony. I mean, the reality is, if he wants to come on to the frontbench, he needs to make that intention known to the leader, and I'm sure, in the fullness of time, when it was appropriate and capable to be done, his wishes would be accommodated because he's obviously a very important talent.

TONY JONES:

What job would he do? What job would he do?

CHRISTOPHER PYNE:

Well, whatever job he was offered by the leader, should he choose to come on to the frontbench. I mean, I don't think that the public really care one way or the other about all these - this speculative - this feverish speculation, as Tony Abbott put it, about whether Peter Costello should or shouldn't be on the frontbench. He's made his intentions clear. Malcolm Turnbull obviously offered him a position on the frontbench when he first became leader and Brendan Nelson did the same when he was first leader. So it's not an unusual state of affairs for Peter Costello to make a decision that he doesn't wish to do so. And, you know, he's entitled to make that decision.

TONY JONES:

We'll come back to the latest offer, which is under contention at the moment. But the impression that all this leaves is that Mr Hockey's just warming the seat until Peter Costello decides it's time to come onto the front bench.

CHRISTOPHER PYNE:

No, I don't think that's the case. I mean, Peter Costello's made his position very clear. Joe Hockey is the Shadow Treasurer. He will do a spectacular job. He's a very smart fellow, he's a very bright fellow, he's got a good nature and a good communicative skills. I'm sure that he will perform extremely well as Shadow Treasurer and take the fight to the Labor Party and to the Government, who quite frankly are bungling the economy with their kneejerk and panicked reactions to the global financial crisis.

TONY JONES:

Perhaps the more disturbing prospect for your party is that powerful figures think that Malcolm Turnbull is just warming the seat until Peter Costello decides it's time to take over the leadership.

CHRISTOPHER PYNE:

No, I don't think that's the case. The party room ...

TONY JONES:

You don't know if it's the case? You just don't think it's the case?

CHRISTOPHER PYNE:

I'm sure it's not the case. The party room is completely united behind Malcolm Turnbull. We've been galvanised into action in the last fortnight because of Labor's latest spending spree. The spending spree in December didn't work. Retail sales increased by $700 million after a $10 billion spend and unemployment went up. So, if the spending spree of the Government is designed to save jobs or create jobs, it's certainly isn't working. And the Opposition has come up with better ideas. Malcolm Turnbull's made useful suggestions since last September when he became leader and the Government is foolishly, and fool-heartedly going on with their spending spree, which we saw didn't work in December and we doubt very much that it'll work in February.

TONY JONES:

Alright, but because of the muddle over your frontbench reshuffle and the controversy that now surrounds it, the attention's not on that, it's on the Liberal Party. As you've heard, the ABC's now reporting that Malcolm Turnbull offered the Shadow Treasurer's job to Peter Costello last Sunday, just a couple of days ago, but put a condition on the offer that Mr Costello would have to stand up and make it clear that he wanted the job, then Julie Bishop would stand down. So you've got the stand up/stand down scenario. Is that how you understand it?

CHRISTOPHER PYNE:

No, that's not how I understand it. I don't comment on private conversations that occur in either the Opposition or the Government, and I think the Government would be better served - the public would be better served if the Government got on with the job of not panicking and having kneejerk reactions and going into tremendous debt and making the easy decisions, but actually got on with the job of trying to make this country survive the economic crisis.

TONY JONES:

Yeah, OK. But this story's not being driven by the Government. This story's being driven from with inside your own party. It's out now. You've got Costello supporters telling one thing to the media. You've got Turnbull supporters telling a very different story. So while this reshuffle was actually meant to solve all the problems and get the focus on the Government, the opposite has happened.

CHRISTOPHER PYNE:

Well, with great respect, Tony, I really don't think the Australian public give a damn about the internal machinations and private conversations that go on in either the Opposition or the Government. What the public care about is that the Government and the Opposition are trying to work together to solve this economic crisis. Now Malcolm Turnbull's made numerous offers to Kevin Rudd, as way back as September when he became leader. He's tried to help Kevin Rudd to survive this economic crisis for the good of the country. The private conversations of leaders, deputy leaders, members of the frontbench and members of the backbench, it doesn't cut the mustard at all with the public. They just don't care.

TONY JONES:

Well, they're not private anymore - that's the point. Here's a simple question: was Mr Costello approached by Malcolm Turnbull with a job offer on Sunday?

CHRISTOPHER PYNE:

I'm not privy to the private conversations that occur. I understand that from the reports in the paper that Peter Costello was invited to rejoin the frontbench. If he chose to do so, I think the whole party room would stand up and cheer because he's a great talent. He's a tremendous member of public life, and I'm glad that he's still in Parliament and I hope he continues to stay in Parliament, but he's chosen not to do that.

TONY JONES:

Well, you obviously want him, you obviously want him - you, personally, obviously want him to come back onto the frontbench from what you're saying. And here's the thing: if he was made an offer that had conditions which he could not accept, is that the right way to go about it? Because that's what seems to have upset a lot of your colleagues tonight.

CHRISTOPHER PYNE:

Well, I don't know - well, I don't know if that's the case or not and neither do my colleagues, if they are speaking to the press. I reiterate that debt and deficit and jobs are the key issues that the public are interested in. And the reaction to the bushfire, how we go forward after this terrible bushfires in Victoria - these are the key issues. Not the parlour games of politicians in Canberra. The public don't care about that.

TONY JONES:

Well, unfortunately the gallery, the media in general and anyone who watches politics closely do care about these things. And if it weren't for your colleagues telling stories to journalists, we wouldn't be asking you these questions now. So, aren't you concerned at all that Peter Costello might've been offered this job that you want him to have with conditions that made it impossible for him to accept it?

CHRISTOPHER PYNE:

Well, I'm not sure that that is the case. I'm not in the least bit sure that those anonymous briefings of journalists reflect the reality of what has happened. We're all very disappointed for Julie Bishop that she was never really given any clear air from the beginning of this year to continue as Shadow Treasurer. She recognised that this was becoming a distraction for the Government, for the Opposition, for the public, so she generously decided that she would move to foreign affairs and give a new person a chance at making a good fist of the job. Joe Hockey will do that. He'll do a very good job. And the fact that the Government is so determined to derail Joe Hockey from the beginning indicates that they are very concerned that ""the great communicator"", as I call him here in Canberra, is in the Shadow Treasurer's job.

TONY JONES:

Well, you say that Julie Bishop generously stepped down, but of course if it's true that on Sunday that her own leader was plotting against her with Peter Costello, making an offer to him to take over her job if only he would stand up and tell her to step down, that's a pretty serious blow for the credibility of your deputy party leader, isn't it?

CHRISTOPHER PYNE:

Well, of course, if you keep repeating the same anonymous accusation over and over again, the hope is that people will believe it. I'm not sure that what you're saying is true. The leader and the deputy leader would speak every day - that's part of the their job. Julie Bishop has stood down on - yesterday, as recently as yesterday. A small - a minor reshuffle was made because of the consequence upon her moving to Foreign Affairs. We have a very good frontbench team. We have an excellent leader, a smart leader, a leader the public have confidence knows about how to run an economy and we'll be holding the Government accountable and scrutinising their performance, as we should be.

TONY JONES:

As a friend of Peter Costello, has Malcolm Turnbull sounded you out on what his intentions are - what his leadership intentions are?

CHRISTOPHER PYNE:

Well, Peter Costello - he and I are very close. And there's no secret to that. I've been a very good friend of Peter Costello's for a very long time. Since the election, the day after the election and consistently since that time, Peter Costello's made it clear that he doesn't harbour any ambitions to be leader of the party. And he's made it clear, as recently as yesterday and even again today, that he doesn't seek to come back onto the frontbench - that he seeks to be the Member For Higgins.

TONY JONES:

At this time.

CHRISTOPHER PYNE:

And that's fine with me and fine with ...

TONY JONES:

At this time - that's the qualifying phrase, isn't it?

CHRISTOPHER PYNE:

Well, I don't think he has qualified it. I don't think he has said, ""At this time"". He's said that he doesn't wish to come back onto the frontbench or to seek a leadership position. I respect his decision, and I think the good burgers of Higgins are the winners, because they have his full and complete attention.

TONY JONES:

Do you want that decisions made permanent, made into a guarantee. No, I'm serious about this. Made into a guarantee. Because what you now face is the same prospect that happened to the Liberal Party during the Howard-Peacock years of leadership rivalry, that destabilised the party for such a long time. Because we know that people from within the Costello camp and people within the Turnbull camp are now telling different stories about this, it looks like that instability may be re-emerging. That would be a terrible fear for your party, would it not?

CHRISTOPHER PYNE:

Well I don't think there are any such camps in the party room. My impression, having been here for 16 years, is that the party is united behind Malcolm Turnbull. They know that he is the man to lead us to the next election. They know that he is focused on what Australians think is important, which is trying to deal with this debt that they are gonna be saddled with and future generations are gonna be saddled with. They know that jobs should be the primary focus of the Government and Opposition. We've made that absolutely clear. We want to help the Government to get through this economic crisis. We don't think the decisions that they are making will do the trick. In fact, we think they'll do damage to the economy. They've had a kneejerk reaction. They're being reckless with the decisions that they're making and they're throwing good money after bad in many aspects of their package. We have a better package and we have a better way to keep Australia out of debt.

TONY JONES:

While Peter Costello is still there, while he remains sitting on the backbench like a ticking time bomb, threatening the leadership, can you avoid the kind of rivalry you had during the Howard-Peacock years?

CHRISTOPHER PYNE:

Well, I don't believe Peter Costello is doing that. I'm quite certain that he's not doing that. He is a valued member of the team. The team is working very hard. We've got some minor changes from yesterday. And we go back to Parliament next Monday and we will hold the Government accountable.

TONY JONES:

Would he have accepted the job of Shadow Treasury without preconditions being imposed?

CHRISTOPHER PYNE:

Well, I don't know that there were any conditions imposed. I'm not privy to private conversations that occur.

TONY JONES:

Would you be disturbed if there were, though?

CHRISTOPHER PYNE:

Quite frankly, Tony, I don't think the public give a damn about private conversations between politicians.

TONY JONES:

What about you? Do you not give a damn about whether conditions were imposed?

CHRISTOPHER PYNE:

What I care about is where this country goes in the next 18 months before the Opposition has a chance to throw this rotten Government out and try and get a team of people into the positions of power who know how to run an economy. And Malcolm Turnbull has the runs on the board that give the public confidence that he knows where to take the country.

TONY JONES:

OK, Christopher Pyne, new Manager of Opposition Business, a new role for you. Congratulations there. We thank you for joining us tonight.

CHRISTOPHER PYNE:

It's a great pleasure. Thanks, Tony.