Transcript - ABC Radio National - 17 March 2010

SUBJECTS: Paid parental leave; Labor leadership; youth allowance; Keating

Fran Kelly: Christopher Pyne I think we better start with Peter Costello's contribution to the debate today in the Fairfax newspapers. Peter Costello is very critical of Tony Abbott's Paid Parental Leave Scheme, he accuses Tony Abbott of engaging in a (inaudible) race to the bottom, he said the scheme was silly, alarm bells should have sounded like air raid sirens he said he's been in the Liberal Party for a very long time and he's never heard a speech in favour of a higher tax. They are words from the former treasurer who you admired enormously.

Christopher Pyne: Peter Costello is a famously miserly former Treasurer. He managed to get our budget into surplus for most of the time that we were in Government. He left the current Government with money in the bank, established the future fund and paid the debt

Kelly: (inaudible) policy work you say you're a big fan of

Pyne: Sure, I am a big fan of it. Peter Costello and John Howard set the country up and that's one of the reasons why Australia did as well as it did in the global financial crisis because of the foundations upon which the Government started

Kelly: So you would agree this direction on policy from Tony Abbott is not great economic policy?

Pyne: No I don't agree with him on that and he's entitled to his opinion but you have to move with the times and what we have in the Coalition is a fully costed, fully funded, very generous Paid Parental Leave policy, it's more generous than the Government's, It provides eight more weeks than the Government at higher pay for most people

Kelly: And a great big new tax?

Pyne: Well it's not a great big new tax at all Fran. It's a 1.7% levy on three thousand two hundred of the largest businesses in Australia out of seven hundred and fifty thousand businesses. Now I don't regard that, and I don't think the public regard that as a tax, as a big new tax, in fact I think most people believe it's time that Paid Parental Leaves' time has arrived and Tony Abbott has got out in front of the Government. Now Peter Costello is entitled to his view but I think a very generous Paid Parental Leave Scheme is a good idea for Australia economically, socially, it supports families' not just popular with women, popular with men as well because it supports families with children

Kelly: Christopher Bowen now I'm in the studio with you two I can see you smiling as Christopher Pyne perhaps has to fend off his attack form Peter Costello one of his own, but you shouldn't be too smiley because what I wanted to talk to you about is the polls. Why aren't people satisfied with the Prime Minister?

Chris Bowen: Well Fran we've said for some time the next election is going to be tight, people are now taking it seriously when we say that. If three out of one hundred people change their mind from the last election, then Tony Abbott will be Prime Minister, health reforms out the window, Work Choices is back and Barnaby Joyce is sitting in the chair as Finance Minister. Now we've said for some time that this election is going to be tight and that Tony Abbott becoming Prime Minister of Australia is a possibility which people need to take seriously with all the risk and the danger that entails for economic management. What Peter Costello thinks about Tony Abbott's economic management skills is not fit for repetition on a family breakfast radio program Fran and on this issue Peter Costello is right and it's sad to see one of Peter Costello's greatest supporters from all those years walk away from him, you were a great supporter of (inaudible)

Pyne: He was a great performer

Bowen: Well that's arguable but you were certainly a great supporter and it's sad to see you walking away from Peter Costello as you wind and twist to try and defend this appallingly bad policy track record on behalf of Tony Abbott

Kelly: Let's get back to people walking away from Kevin Rudd because 48% approval rating, a walk away from Labor primary vote 39% that's not a great strong showing in the primary vote but I want to talk about is all this talk now about Julia Gillard, that Julia Gillard is (inaudible)

Bowen: Fran some people around this building in the press gallery in particular love nothing more than a conspiracy theory and this is nothing more than just the mother of all conspiracy theories, a fantasy. Kevin Rudd will be Prime Minister for A, as long as the Australian people want him to and B, as long as he wants himself to be. This is just an invention of people who go around inventing conspiracy theories because they have nothing better to do

Kelly: Labor backbenchers, well backbenchers on both sides often get into trouble at times like this, let's just here from Labor backbencher Darren Cheeseman

Audio of Cheeseman plays

Kelly: Now it should be said Darren Cheeseman also expressed strong support for Kevin Rudd but that notion that Julia Gillard is the contender if the PM would fall under the (inaudible) John Howard, that's how you see it?

Bowen: Look isn't it a terrible thing that the Government has two very talented people right at the top, Kevin Rudd and Julia Gillard and right back down the order, more that could be said for The Liberal Party. So yes we have two very talented people at the top and Julia Gillard is a very good Deputy Prime Minister

Kelly: Christopher Pyne who do the Liberal Party fear more in terms of making a pitch the electorate Kevin Rudd or Julia Gillard?

Pyne: Well Fran Tony Abbott doesn't fear anyone but we certainly think that Julia Gillard would be a tougher personality to face at an election. She is clearly their better parliamentary performer although Kevin Rudd is probably one of the worst parliamentary performers in question time of any Prime Minister I have ever experienced so that's actually probably not saying very much, but she's certainly much better. Can I give you an example. She and I have reached a deal on the Youth Allowance. Clearly she's trying to send the message out to people that she can actually get things through The Senate, that she's not just all talk and no action unlike the Prime Minister. It's subtle but it's been noticed around here that she

Kelly: That's a bit rough isn't it? You've been working on this trying to get this through for ages. Do you think she's only agreed because it's all in this talk of no talk no action?

Pyne: Well Fran we have agreed in a week and last year and in January and in February she said that the things that the Coalition were asking for were impossible

Kelly: So you haven't changed what you're asking for at all?

Pyne: We've achieved most of the things we asked for. We got rid of all the retrospectivity, we had rural, remote and very remote young people included under the old work tests for the independent youth rate and our savings measure has been adopted to pay for it. So you know last year it was impossible, in January and February it was impossible, in March it suddenly becomes do able, in a week we have negotiated it. Who's the person getting things through the Senate, who's the person who's not just all talk and no action when it comes to Youth Allowance. I think the message to the caucus is pretty clear

Kelly: Chris Bowen do you agree with that, the PM has been accused of not rolling up his sleeves and doing the hard yards

Bowen: In fairness Fran I don't think anyone has ever accused the Prime Minister of not doing the hard yards and not working hard. I think even his most vocal critics would not suggest that. In all seriousness credit where it's due, I'm glad the Liberal Party came to the table and negotiated. As I said on this program a couple weeks ago Fran this is really important for getting kids form disadvantaged backgrounds into university. This stuff really counts, I begged with Chris a couple of weeks ago to sit down with Julia Gillard and talk this through for the good of the people to get those people in university, I'm glad he did I'm glad the petty and juvenile games about where their meeting was going to be and what time ceased

Pyne: We've been offering to meet with her since last August and now suddenly in March she can meet with us

Bowen: Writing letters saying you can come to my office, in all seriousness I'm saying I'm glad you've put all the triviality aside, I'm trying to pay you a compliment, if you be quiet for a second I'll pay a compliment. I'm glad you put the triviality aside and sat down and did a deal in the public interest

Kelly: Talk about paying compliments we had former Prime Minister Paul Keating on this program yesterday paying no compliments to Tony Abbott, let's just remind ourselves of that

Audio of Keating clip play

Kelly: That was Paul Keating talking yesterday about Tony Abbott. A lot of people don't like that kind of talk but a lot of people are saying why can't Kevin Rudd land blows on Tony Abbott like that?

Bowen: Well Paul Keating is a particularly robust communicator and that has its place in Australian public life. Let me say this Fran, Kevin Rudd comprehensively out communicated John Howard the alleged great communicator of Australian Politics at the last election. He will comprehensively out communicate Tony Abbott at the next election

Pyne: That sounds a little conceited. I actually think the last election was probably one of the easiest elections for the Labor Party to win. The Government had been in power for eleven and a half years we had spent three years arguing amongst ourselves about whether John Howard should go or whether he should stay. We offered to the public the best we could but quite frankly the public looked at us and said you're not talking about the things that we are interested in so I think it was one of the easiest elections in some respects almost the drovers dog election, and that's why Kevin Rudd won

Kelly: Christopher Pyne, Tony Abbott thinks he can win this election which would be historical obviously but he also said to the party room this week that the change to be a credible alternative not just an effective opposition. At the same time in the same speech he's saying, he told the party room that the Government not the Opposition should be the issue each and every day. You can't have it all ways, if you're trying to make the Government the issue and yet you're trying to present yourself as being a credible alternative Government where are the policies, where are the full costed policies?

Pyne: Well let me give you a good example of what Tony Abbott is saying. You make the Government the issue and the Government's issue at the moment is that they're all talk and no action. So we have a direct action policy on Climate Change, we have a direct action policy on Paid Parental Leave, we have a direct action policy on the Murray Darling Basin and the referendum so in fact by putting out those policy ideas which are about action, we are highlighting that the Government is all talk and no action

Kelly: It would be fair to say though that some of the policies that Tony Abbott is putting out are only kind of part policies aren't they, look at the hospital policy, you know two local networks in two states I mean that's not a public hospital policy that's just a diversion

Pyne: We are in opposition and we've said that these are the ideas that we'll be taking to the election. We have also said that we will flesh out all those ideas in more detail later, that's what you expect the Opposition to be doing. You expect the Government to be actually getting on with things rather than trying to blame the Opposition, I actually think the irony is the Government is behaving more like an opposition when it should actually be behaving like a Government

Kelly: Chris Bowen you get the final say today and I've got a lot of issues I wanted to get to Paul Keating's challenge for you to lift the superannuation guarantee to 12% that's directly in your portfolio, I'd like you to give me a quick comment on that and finally what is the message, how desperate are Labor MP's feeling as they go out to their electorates for these seven weeks?

Bowen: Look you're with Paul Keating's ship and of all Paul Keating's economic reforms and there are many and substantial, I think superannuation was the most important. It had a long term impact on people's retirement incomes and on the strength of the Australian economy and he's right to be so proud of it

Kelly: But are they part of the vision in place? He wants you guys to do the rest

Bowen: And we do and I've said several times we need to address adequacy and the superannuation guarantee needs to be on the table as part of that and so to does efficiency, small improvements in efficiency now

Kelly: So 4% is possible?

Bowen: I've said that all these issues need to be on the table for national discussion that's what's occurring, that's what you had yesterday with Paul Keating and you've seen at the conference in Queensland and you're likely to see from (inaudible) today, that discussion is occurring. But it's not just about ESG, we need to improve the efficiency, a small reduction in costs now can make a very big increase in people's retirement incomes over the future. It's about the whole tax treatment of superannuation which we're looking at as part of that independent tax review process, so all these things need to be on the table. These are big reforms and this will be a period of substantial reforms of super. The last word Fran what we haven't heard about today, we haven't had time to deal with the policies of health, we are going to hear a lot more about this over the coming months, this will be a touchstone issue in the election. The contrast between the previous Government which took money out of health and us, we have the biggest reform for health in generations

Kelly: Chris Bowen and Christopher Pyne so much more well mannered thank you for joining us

Ends