Transcript - ABC National - 10 Feb 2010

SUBJECTS: Ironing; election; Australia's national debt

(greetings omitted)

Fran KELLY: This week Tony Abbott said housewives should be where? And the ETS would make their ironing job more expensive! Fellas, who ironed your shirts today?

Chris BOWEN: Well...when I'm in Canberra I iron my own, how about you Christopher?

Christopher PYNE: I used to iron mine when I was in Canberra but now they all get ironed in Adelaide by our person down the road at Shinybrights about 12 at a time and that's a very good idea, and neither my wife or I have to iron our shirts

BOWEN: Yes we do that as well

KELLY: So, housewives of Australia don't need to be clued up like this by Tony Abbott, should he move on?

PYNE: Well I don't think what Tony Abbott said was really exceptional. I mean, people are really overly sensitive to anything Tony Abbott says. They're always looking for these kinds of criticisms to make of him but I think most Australians would have had a wry smile and moved on.

BOWEN: Tony Abbott has to stand by what he said.

PYNE: Labor overreacted to this in the same way they overreacted to all his comments a few weeks ago about advice he'd give to his daughters so when people found out the question was ""what advice would he give his daughters?", most people...most men, in particular thought "what would you expect him to say?""

KELLY: I think references to housewives these days are a little ill-judged but anyway let's move on but we'll stay with Tony Abbott because he told you, Christopher, and others in the Party Room that yes, we can win the election. Coalition MPs should be encouraged that the Government's on the back foot. The Prime Minister said that meant they thought the election was in the bag! Christopher Pyne, is the Opposition starting to get a bit too cocky?

PYNE: Well we are well behind in the polls. We need 17 seats to win the election. There is no possibility that we could be considered as anything other than the underdog. Labor has spent the last two years thinking about how many extra Coalition seats they're going to win at the next election. Including mine! So, I don't think anybody's getting overconfident. I think what Tony Abbott was saying is that if we remain united, if we have a genuine policy alternative and if we successfully expose the enormous flaws in this Government and their failure to explain their ETS and their desire to introduce a big new tax, then the election will be very competitive and that's what I think is central to what the Australian people want. A competitive election.

KELLY: Chris Bowen, has Kevin Rudd given you a ""yes we can"" speech?

BOWEN: No, he's given us a ""this is going to be tough"" speech. He's given us a speech reminding us that in 1984 the first-term Hawke Government almost lost. In 1998 the first-term Howard Government almost lost. Very close-run things and in fact Kim Beasley got a majority of the vote in 1998 and first-term Governments tend to face a very tough election challenge. That's the speech he's given us, not a cocky channelling of Barrak Obama like we saw from Tony Abbott yesterday...

PYNE: There's nothing cocky from the Liberal Party but what I can say is that yesterday Kevin Rudd told the troops that it was about the economy and health. Not long ago he was saying the Emissions Trading Scheme was the greatest moral challenge of our time. He's said that 22 times in the last 2 years and I think, Chris, that he asked two questions this week about the Emissions Trading Scheme and Climate Change. So out of 22 Labor questions this week, 2 have been about the greatest moral challenge of our time! Labor's dropping their ETS!

BOWEN: We're talking about...the Emissions Trading Scheme, the CPRS and many other things, Chris...

PYNE: ...you're backing away and you know it. So why has he only asked 2 questions out of 20?

KELLY: If you take the temperature of Parliament this week there is no doubt that an election is nigh. When it gets close to an election it's always about the economy and isn't that right, Christopher Pyne, does the Opposition have troubles with its new Finance Spokesman? Barnaby Joyce would not be silent, I guess you wouldn't want him to be silent but he was warning yesterday that Australia soon won't be able to pay off its overseas debt! What are we going to do with Barnaby Joyce?

PYNE: I think that Barnaby was very importantly placing debt front and centre of this coming election campaign. He wasn't suggesting for a minute that Australia was going to default on its loans. What he was saying was...that the Government is on a spending spree. That we now have a rising debt to $256billion gross by 2013. That there is no plan to reduce debt and that every Australian should be deeply concerned about it. It's surprising to me that the commentariat here in Canberra and the Labor Party are so insouciant about debt because it's obviously a part of the Labor Party's re-election - to spend as much money as they can and to make debt seem so unimportant. Even in the Sydney Morning Herald...saying that if the Government doesn't have a plan for debt it will mean interest rates rise.

KELLY: Okay, okay. Let's hear...let's straighten this out. Let's not take anybody's word for it. Let's hear Barnaby Joyce from yesterday.

Barnaby JOYCE: ...to people overseas. You've got to ask the question: ""How far into debt do you want to go?"" We are getting to a point where we can't repay it.

KELLY: We are getting to a point where we can't repay it.

PYNE: We are getting to a point where our debt is out of control.

KELLY: But our AAA rating?

PYNE: So debt is not a problem?

KELLY: There's two different issues if you ask me.

PYNE: So what? Is that your position or is that the Labor Party's position? That debt is not an issue? We can keep borrowing...

KELLY: Alright, alright...Chris Bowen, do you see the Government's leaping all over Barnaby Joyce...extending it to what you'd like to term the Opposition's economic team...you're putting Joe Hockey in that slab of the worst economic team in years. I'm not sure what the case against Joe Hockey is in particular but do you see this going away? You wouldn't want Tony Abbott moving Barnaby Joyce now, would you?

BOWEN: Well Barnaby's comments yesterday, despite Chris' dissembling, are extremely irresponsible. But this, as Chris highlights, is part of the Liberal Party's scare campaign on debt. To say we are in danger of defaulting on our debt, which is what he did, is grossly irresponsible and shows just how erratic he is. But also, it's a continuation of the Liberal Party's scare campaign on debt. Now deficit this year is around 4% of GDP and you know at this stage to panic when it's about 10. Now debt levels peaked at over 9% of GDP at the same time around the world that debt levels are reaching 100% of GDP and exceeding 100% in some nations. So we've got to put this in perspective. The Liberal Party and the National Party know that debt levels in Australia are lower than they were not too long ago. Not too long ago, Christopher and you know that's a fact!

PYNE: Why don't' you run through the figures?

BOWEN: I've just gone through the figures...weren't you listening? The percentage is 4½%...so when comparing the United States and Australia you shouldn't consider percentages?

KELLY: I think the point is, Chris Bowen, that there are plenty of polls that suggest voters are a bit touchy about debt and deficit. Everybody understands what it is like to be in debt too much and people don't like it. The Reserve Bank is saying there is a trade-off between debts and Budget spending. That hasn't helped your case at the moment, has it?

BOWEN: Well what the Reserve bank Governor was saying is...it's a very good paper, it's a very expansive paper...and he makes it explicit in there, there is no question about this. He makes it explicit that he's talking about nations with much higher debt levels than Australia. He has consistently said he is very comfortable with the fiscal position of Australia...with the Government's fiscal policy for Australia. He has consistently said that if it wasn't for the Government's fiscal strategy we would be in recession. In other words, Fran, we'd be in a jobs deficit. Now Christopher can talk about deficits...his plan...Party's approach would see much higher unemployment levels and, you're right, people do know what it's like to be in debt. People know what it's like to be unemployed and they know that if it hadn't been for the Government's strategy unemployment would be much higher than it is now.

KELLY: I feel we'll be talking about debt and deficit for many months to come...

(ends)