Transcript 4 Dec 2008 - Schools Assistance Bill

Pyne:

The Opposition is delighted with the outcome of the Schools Assistance Bill. We had three concerns. The first two the Government accepted by amendment, which was decided earlier this week: the qualified audit aspects of the Bill, and the funding disclosure, publication of the funding sources of private schools. They’ve both been changed in the legislation, and the only sticking point left was how the national curriculum would operate. We have said all along that we believe it was very loose. We believed that Steiner, Montessori, IB, Cambridge International Schools and others had reason to fear that they would not be able to continue to exist under the national curriculum, and we didn’t get any comfort from the Minister over and over again until today. Senator Carr today put on the record that the National Curriculum would not mandate teaching methods, it would not mandate teaching techniques. He also said that the ACARA Board or the National Curriculum Board would be required to make sure that unique schooling methods were included into the future, that they faced no threat. Previously the Government said that it wouldn’t give that assurance on mandating teaching methods, they simply talked in loose terms about how it would operate. That is now clear.

And secondly they said they would ask ACARA for advice about how they might be able to make those schools work, where as today they’ve said that they will order ACARA to make it work. So this is a great victory for common sense. I’m glad that finally the Minister put her ego to one side and decided a good outcome for non-government schools was really the outcome that we needed so that they could continue into the future. Minister Carr actually specifically named all the unique teaching method schools that I have been raising, virtually in the same order that I’ve raised them to leave no doubt that they’ll be able to continue into the future. Of course the Hansard record is an instrument upon which judges rely to determine the intention of Government, and what Bills mean so if this changes, if the national curriculum does put those schools at risk then they will all be able to take the Government to court and a judge will be able to rely on what a Senator Carr said today. So we are very delighted with the outcome and I’m looking forward to your questions.

Journalist:

Isn’t this just an embarrassing backflip?

Pyne:

From whom?

Journalist:

From the Coalition?

Pyne:

Well how could it be? We got everything we wanted.

Journalist:

The Government has been saying for weeks that those unique teaching methods wouldn’t be under threat, isn’t it you who is back flipping, not them?

Pyne:

I think..

Journalist:

Your amendment didn’t get up

Pyne:

I think this ‘you did’ ‘he did’ thing is a bit pathetic. The reality is what you say at a doorstop or at a press conference is not something upon which courts rely to determine the intention of Government. They do use the Hansard to do so, especially second reading speeches and speeches by Ministers about what Government Bills mean. It is a completely different thing for Senator Carr to place on the record on the Hansard today what’ve been requesting since October. So in fact the Opposition has achieved all its outcomes for non-government schools, we’ve stood up for non-government schools and I’m delighted common sense has finally prevailed.

Journalist:

Why didn’t you insist on it being in the Legislation if you’re so concerned? Why the change of heart on that matter?

Pyne:

I think the fact that we didn’t proceed with our amendment underlines the fact that we’re satisfied with what Senator Carr said on the record.

Journalist:

The courts will only refer to the Parliamentary debate where the legislation itself is ambiguous…

Pyne:

Well the legislation itself is ambiguous and that’s why we were raising these matters for the last two or three months, in fact since October, almost four months. The legislation is ambiguous. It didn’t say anything about how unique teaching methods would be protected. Senator Carr has made that clear in the Senate today, I’m sure on the instruction from the Minister for Education, and the courts will be able to rely on that to say that unique teaching methods will be able to continue under the national curriculum.

Journalist:

Did Malcolm Turnbull tell you to drop your Opposition to the Bill?

Pyne:

Malcolm Turnbull is absolutely ecstatic that the Opposition has managed to achieve all our outcomes in our three areas of concern.

Journalist:

Did he tell you to let this go through in the Senate?

Pyne:

Well there was no point in insisting on our amendment in the event that we were satisfied with what Senator Carr said. The reason I was in the Chamber, sitting there, was to hear what Senator Carr said so I could indicate to our Senators, Senator Mason who has done a sensational job in the Senate today all week, as to whether that satisfied the Opposition. Of course the Government hasn’t shared any of the information with me. Having heard what he said I was determined to be able to accept that and didn’t need to move our amendments.

Journalist:

Wasn’t the decision made before Senator Carr got up and made those statements?

Pyne:

Well if it was I wouldn’t have been sitting in the Senate.

Journalist:

You’re cutting it a bit fine to relying on the word of Kim Carr though aren’t you?

Pyne:

Well because I’m an old fashioned Parliamentarian, I actually think that the Hansard record does mean something and for that reason I knew, having been here for fifteen years, if Senator Carr said it on the Hansard record in the specific terms that he did, and he actually named each of the schools about which we were concerned, and the courts would be able to rely on that so I regarded that as a victory.

Journalist:

How can you claim a victory on the public disclosure of funding sources? Obviously schools will still have to declare their overall wealth. Newspapers will still be able to put that on their front page, people can still use that as an argument to say these schools don’t need public funds, the SES is unfair, why not having individual sources? What difference will that make?

Pyne:

Well it actually makes a big difference, because the overall funding sources of non-government schools are declared today already in their annual reports. In 80% of schools they have to do annual reports so therefore in those annual reports you’ll find their financial records, not broken down by individual sources, so in fact we have achieved entirely what we wanted which was not to publish the individual sources of funding for non-government schools.

Journalist:

Which is something Julia Gillard said she never wanted to do?

Pyne:

She wouldn’t put it in the Bill and she wouldn’t clarify that on the record, it is now absolutely clarified by amendment.

Journalist:

Why not also clarify this concern you had about teaching techniques, why not clarify that in the legislation, if it’s as important as your funding concern about disclosure?

Pyne:

Well don’t ask me that question, I’m not the Government, I mean, Julia Gillard needs to answer that question.

Journalist:

You could have insisted on your amendment.

Pyne:

You need to get 39 votes in the Senate to pass an amendment. Senator Xenophon indicated to me that he wouldn’t support that. He is satisfied with what Senator Carr said, he might have had some pre-notice of what Senator Carr said. We couldn’t actually amend the Bill so insisting on moving an amendment that we knew would fail seemed slightly pointless, especially when you’re satisfied with the remarks that the Minister made on the record in the Hansard upon which courts can rely.

Journalist:

The remuneration tribunal found that you’re underpaid, you and other MPs. Are you?

Pyne:

I never talk about MPs’ pay because it’s all downsides for MPs. If you want to talk about it, go ahead and talk about it, but it’s not really my bag. I’m very satisfied with my remuneration. I’ve been doing this for fifteen years. If I wasn’t I would have got out a long time ago.

Journalist:

Do you believe that the Bidgood case and the photography yesterday is a closed case given his apology to Parliament?

Pyne:

Look Mr Hockey is the person to ask those questions. What Mr Bidgood did was very low rent behaviour and I’ve said so this morning on Sky news in fact. He has obviously apologised to the Parliament and whether that’s the end of the matter I guess is a question for Mr Hockey, I’ve been a bit preoccupied today with the Schools Assistance Bill to be honest and I haven’t really decided to make that my issue of the day.

Journalist:

Do you think Senators Carr’s list will form a prescribed list, and other teaching methods that aren’t in that list won’t have the same (inaudible)..

Pyne:

Well Senator Carr named Steiner Schools, Montessori Schools, schools that teach the International Baccalaureate, the Cambridge International Examination method and he then went on to say, and other unique teaching methods. That would encapsulate Emilio Reggio Schools and other types of schools that have unique teaching methods. You could even say the Jesuits have unique teaching methods!

Journalist:

Mr Pyne, with all respect, to the people at home, don’t you think it’s going to look like the Coalition has rolled over here because Labor has gotten their Bill through?

Pyne:

Well we didn’t want to stop the Bill going through. The idea that the, the issue in the last week hasn’t been about whether the Bill goes through or not, the issue is whether the Government would see sense over our key concerns. Nobody wanted to stop funding flowing to schools on January the 1st, and that was always a ridiculous red herring, that the Minister for Education kept raising, obviously to create hysteria in the non-government sector. That’s a tactic – if she wants to pursue it that’s up to her. The issue was always, could we make this Bill better, and would the Government see commonsense? Now we had enough votes to do so in the first two of our concerns on the issue of funding disclosure and on the issue of qualified audit. On the third issue, that was the national curriculum, which we felt was woolly and described poorly in the legislation, the Government’s clarified its position on that on the Hansard record for all to see, and for judges to rely on. So the Opposition has achieved all it’s outcomes in all three key areas. I might even get performance pay if Kevin Rudd was running the agenda, because apparently if you achieve all your KPIs you actually get performance pay. I’m not sure we’ll have to check with the Prime Minister. He knows more about those things than I do.

Journalist:

Did you check with any of the schools that you say have been concerned, particularly the Victorian Independent Schools Council, whether they were happy with Senator Carr’s assurances before you voted for this?

Pyne:

Well I couldn’t Samantha because Senator Carr said those statements in the Senate. He didn’t share them with me before hand. I had to sit there and listen, so I didn’t have time to go out and ring anybody about it, but the Opposition has been making its own decisions about the direction that we’ve been pursing this issue, and I made the assessment on the spot that this was a very important clarification by the Government that they had backed down to one of our key outcomes and we regarded that as a victory.

Journalist:

How much pressure was put on you by private schools in the last 24 hours to drop your opposition to this and let the funding go through?

Pyne:

Well I didn’t feel any pressure to do so at all.

Journalist:

Have you had any discussions with non-government schools groups?

Pyne:

I talk to non-government schools groups constantly, sure, by email, by phone and in person, absolutely.

Journalist:

How many emails have demanded you do pass the Bill and drop your opposition?

Pyne:

Well I haven’t the faintest clue.

Journalist:

Maybe hundreds?

Pyne:

Probably, but there has probably been as many on the other side of the equation saying we’re doing exactly the right thing. It’s not very hard to get everybody who is member of an association to send a rote email to one person. So the number of emails is pretty irrelevant.

Journalist:

Do you feel like you need to patch over your relationship with the independent schools council?

Pyne:

I have a very good relationship with the Independent Schools Council of Australia as I have with all the non-government sector, and the government sector representatives. They’ve obviously decided this week to support the Government, to take a public stand and appear with them on a podium, so perhaps we might need to have a cup of tea in the weeks ahead to talk about that on their part, but I don’t hold any grudges against anyone ever in politics. It’s not a very healthy way to behave.

Journalist:

If you haven’t backed down, would you say you’ve compromised?

Pyne:

We offered the Government a compromise which was that amendment, which they decided not to accept, and we’re delighted that they have adopted the concerns that we had by clarifying them in the Senate today.