Transcript - 2GB Ray Hadley - 13 April 2010

SUBJECTS: BER Taskforce; Gillard and the media; Berridale

Ray Hadley: You're jumping up and down as most people are at the moment saying you want a judicial inquiry not just some sort of taskforce, can you tell us why it's important to have a judicial inquiry, not a taskforce?

Christopher Pyne MP: Well a taskforce gives the Government the ability to push a lot of these issues under the carpet, and they go to the taskforce basically talk to the hand is the message. A Judicial Inquiry is an independent body that can compel witnesses, it can subpoena documents, it can summons people. It has it's own timeline, it's own secretariat, and can make recommendations for all sorts of things. A Judicial Inquiry is the only way to get this out of the hands of the Government, and put it in the hands of somebody who, without fear or favour, can give a report that we all know is going to be genuine.

The problem with this taskforce, and it's no reflection on the man that has been put in charge of it, but it actually reports to Julia Gillard, it reports to the Department of Education, it's no more independent than any other part of it.

Hadley: But wouldn't Mr Orgill, given where he has come from, he's not some bureaucrat, he is a highly credentialed person in the private sector, an investment banker, or former investment banker, Mr Brad Orgill, wouldn't he be jumping up and down if he files a report that says this stinks the whole thing stinks, and I believe it goes hand in glove with an Auditor-General's report that says it stinks as well, wouldn't he be jumping the joint upside down and talking to either the Australian, or you or me about this if they try and duckshove it away somewhere?

Pyne: Well you'd hope so, and he has his own reputation to take care of, but what are his powers? If for example he turns up to one of the seven or eight contractors in New South Wales who have been getting these amazing fees that you've been talking about and I've been talking about and says, I want you to give me the documents that shows how you can justify these fees, well he has no power to compel them to do so. If they say, well that's great, good on you, we'll see you in a couple of months, he can't actually compel them to do it, where as a Judicial Inquiry can actually subpoena those documents, and has all the power of the courts. This is my great concern.

Hadley: Well given, with all due respect, we've had to carry the Deputy Prime Minister and Education Minister kicking and screaming to this point; do you think it's almost impossible that she'll accede to another request from you for a Judicial Inquiry instead of a taskforce that she just set up?

Pyne: Well you might be right Ray, this is a political fix, this taskforce, designed to get them through the election campaign and make them look like they are doing something.

Hadley: That's my great fear Christopher... My great fear is this; every time we have something crop up, whether it's boat people from Sri Lanka or Afghanistan, three months for them, six months for them, and of course, which ever time frame it is, it is highly likely it will be gone by the time this is all over, so they go to the electorate saying, in relation to the problems we've had, insulation, Greg Combet's doing his best to fix that... the boat people, we'll we've acted quickly to that, despite the fact they're still coming, we're not processing them, and in relation to the other problem, BER, well there you go, we've appointed Brad Orgill to fix this up and it will be fixed up. They go to the electorate and everyone, who doesn't take a keen interest in this like I have or you have will go 'ah well it was a problem but they fixed it'.

Hadley: And I quite like her as a person. I think she's a charming person from my interviews with her, from what I read of her, from what I hear of her. She seems like a very nice and capable person, but if she buggers things up; you know we had Peter Garrett sidelined over what he did. Admittedly four young men died and one point two billion was wasted and they'll have to spend another one point two billion via Greg Combet to fix it. But this is at the moment about 10 billion dollars of our money and instead of her being criticised today there are people saying, ""well isn't it wonderful she's instituted this task force."" I mean, what about the fact that she for the last six months or particularly the last three months has been telling people like me to pull our heads in; that we're dopes.

Pyne: Well she actually said that the Australian was fabricating stories. And we've asked her 72 questions in Question Time in Parliament House over the last nine months and she's dismissed them all, with a laugh basically. There's no reason at all Julia Gillard should be praised for establishing a Clayton's inquiry which is designed to get them through an election cycle. Unless they establish a judicial inquiry with real power, it is just a media cycle political fix, and any praise for Julia Gillard today is misplaced. What they should be saying of course is that she's been dragged kicking and screaming to recognising what everybody else has been recognising for many many months.

We were down at Berridale yesterday. You know Ray they are still not using the core seven library that should have cost them 285 thousand (dollars), which cost them 908 thousand (dollars) because it doesn't have a fire exit. We're talking about a place that's a few kilometres from Jindabyne and that they have no air conditioning. They've been given louver windows and told to themselves to coll down with louver windows.

Hadley: And this is of course where we had a double brick building; think it was toilet block.... And then I had an argument with Verity Firth and with Julia Gillard that I got the sizes wrong. That the reason one cost so much and the other didn't cost as much because one was 60 square metres and the other one I think was 130 square metres. When I got my tape measure out, thanks to the people at the PMC, I found out that they were very close to the same size and one was out of double brick and the other one wasn't.

Pyne: Exactly. When you actually see them next to each other it is laughable. It is actually sad and tragic. I mean there is three metre by two metre piece of concrete which cost the school nine thousand dollars; an access road that cost them eight thousand dollars that was already there. There were charged eight thousand dollars for an access road which was already there.

Hadley: Look, I don't think you're going to get what you want; I'll be honest with you, but let's just hope Mr Orgill, and he comes here highly recommended with an outstanding reputation, is strong enough to survive all this.

Pyne: Look, we will get a judicial inquiry eventually Ray because it's the only way to resolve the issue. And we'll just keep plugging away because it's the right thing to do.

Hadley: Well thank you for your help and thanks for talking to me.

Pyne: Thank you.

Hadley: Christopher Pyne, the Federal Shadow Education Minister.

Ends