Today Show
06 Dec 2013
Transcipt E&OE TRANSCRIPT
Nine Network – The Today Show interview with Lisa Wilkinson and Tanya Plibersek
6 December 2013
SUBJECT: Qantas; Holden; Government’s fair and national funding agreement; PISA Results.
LISA WILKINSON:
Joining us now to discuss this and to explain his backflip on Gonski, is Education Minister Christopher Pyne and Deputy Opposition Leader, Tanya Plibersek, good morning to both of you.
CHRISTOPHER PYNE:
Good morning Lisa.
LISA WILKINSON:
Christopher Pyne, if I can start with you – is there a case for the Government to step in and bail out Qantas?
CHRISTOPHER PYNE:
Well Qantas has a unique problem which most other private companies don’t have in Australia and that is it is restricted by legislation in terms of its foreign investment, who can invest in Qantas. Now Virgin doesn’t have that restriction which means that Qantas is hide-bound really so we have to think whether the taxpayer directly supports Qantas, or whether we remove those restrictions and allow it to get foreign investment which also means that it might not necessarily be entirely Australian owned. So it is a problem, and we have to sort through it which we will.
LISA WILKINSON:
Is it the Government feeling sentimental about this Australian icon, or do you think you really have to start doing business now?
CHRISTOPHER PYNE:
Well there’s a whole host of reasons why Australia needs to have a national carrier, but it is a global world and at the moment Qantas can’t compete as easily as it should because it is got this half, 50% restriction on its ownership.
LISA WILKINSON:
Christopher’s right, Tanya, there’s not an even playing field at the moment between Qantas and Virgin. Virgin has got 63% foreign ownership, that really does help them in their funding. Do you think that those restrictions should be loosened?
TANYA PLIBERSEK:
Look, I think it’s important to have a look at anything Qantas is proposing to help them operate more effectively. My dad spent the last twenty years of his working life working at Qantas. And I think I do and many Australian do have a strong attachment to Qantas as an Australian brand and Australian carrier. So I think we should have a look at what they are suggesting.
LISA WILKINSON:
But it is a heart versus head thing isn’t it?
TANYA PLIBERSEK:
Well absolutely. I think the emotional attachment is certainly there, you get on a Qantas plane coming back from overseas…
CHRISTOPHER PYNE:
Sure.
TANYA PLIBERSEK:
…you hear those Australian accents, it’s always so wonderful.
CHRISTOPHER PYNE:
I think there is also a sense of almost bipartisanship about this issue, I mean I don’t think you can make much politics out of Qantas because it is such an icon for Australia and I think that is a good thing.
LISA WILKINSON:
And a thousand people facing their job losses coming into Christmas.
TANYA PLIBERSEK:
Absolutely, right before Christmas so I think the very important thing is to give those thousand people the support they need to find new jobs as quickly as possible.
LISA WILKINSON:
And speaking of Aussie icons, Holden – there is talk that they could close is operations here by 2016, is this another case of the Government having to step in?
CHRISTOPHER PYNE:
Well, Holden, well GM really in Detroit, needs to let Holden compete internationally. One of the problems for Holden in Australia is that it doesn’t seem to be given the freedom to export, and it’s not exporting - the market here in Australia isn’t big enough and because we allow so much overseas cars into our market which is a good thing for competition and for consumer choice, Toyota an Holden and Ford need to export, where GM in Detroit puts all sorts of restrictions around Holden’s capacity to export. It hasn’t invested in the equipment it needs to invest in, and Holden makes that decision it’ll be a decision of Holden’s. We in the Federal Liberal Party obviously want to support the car industry as much as possible, but at the end of the day if Holden make a decision, a commercial decision, it’s not something we can make for them.
TANYA PLIBERSEK:
Well Lisa I think that, Christopher skated over the fact that the Liberal Government’s taking $500 million support out of the car industry and I think that is very important car manufacturing here in Australia,. There is a nine to one multiplier effect, every dollar we put in we get nine dollars back. And if you look at the support for the Australian car industry compared to the United States or Germany, the Americans put in about fourteen times as much per person as we do. Even the Germans that you know would be acknowledged as having a very strong car industry, they get about five times per person as much support going in to the car industry as we do here in Australia.
CHRISTOPHER PYNE:
But even with all the support that Labor's been putting in over the last six years, Ford's already decided to leave, even with all that support. Holden's operations here in Australia, even with all the support, made a loss again last year. When General Motors looked at their entire international operations, the Australian operation was the one that was making a loss so all that money's been flowing into Holden and Ford and they're still making losses or deciding to leave in the case of Ford.
TANYA PLIBERSEK:
But the point is, Christopher, we're not putting in a lot compared with other countries that have car industries and we're talking about 200,000 jobs and also the spin off for research and development and innovation that comes from having a car industry. I think it's very important that we keep it here.
LISA WILKINSON:
Alright, we'll have to move on. We need to move onto you, Christopher Pyne. This week's double backflip over Gonski. Now a week ago you were Gonski's foremost critic. You said it was unimplementable, this week you've not only backed it but you've found more than $1 billion extra to put into it. Was it just a case of you caved in to public pressure?
CHRISTOPHER PYNE:
Well the good news, Lisa, is I’ve found $1.2 billion more for education than Labor was going to put in.
LISA WILKINSON:
But was that because of public pressure because you were its greatest critic?
CHRISTOPHER PYNE:
It's because I've been spending the last eleven weeks working behind the scenes with Western Australia, Northern Territory and Queensland.
LISA WILKINSON:
But for ten weeks before that you didn't like it.
CHRISTOPHER PYNE:
I haven't said much about the model since the election. But I found $1.2 billion.
LISA WILKINSON:
Where did you find that?
CHRISTOPHER PYNE:
Well, the Treasurer and the Prime Minister and I worked out how we could fund that, which Labor took out.
LISA WILKINSON:
Where was it?
CHRISTOPHER PYNE:
Well, you will find out in MYEFO, the Mid-year Economic Fiscal Outlook, which will be handed down before the end of the year where that money's come from. And I got Western Australia, Queensland and the Northern Territory to sign up, something Labor never did. So I've delivered the national agreement and more money.
LISA WILKINSON:
But will you change your mind again because you've changed it about four times now on Gonski?
CHRISTOPHER PYNE:
I haven't really. It's where you end the race, Lisa, that counts not where you started.
LISA WILKINSON:
But we don't know where you end. Because we could have said a couple of decisions ago that was the end.
CHRISTOPHER PYNE:
I've crossed the finishing line.
LISA WILKINSON:
Really?
CHRISTOPHER PYNE:
I’ve crossed the line and got the money and the agreement.
TANYA PLIBERSEK:
Well I think it’s great, Christopher was vacuuming the couch and lifted up the cushions and found $1.2 billion.
CHRISTOPHER PYNE:
It’s amazing what you can do.
TANYA PLIBERSEK:
Amazing. This is the fourth position Christopher's had and it's not delivering what the Government said they would deliver before the election. They said they were on a unity ticket with Labor. Our proposal was $14.65 billion extra over six years. This is $2.8 billion over four years. There's no requirement, we had a requirement for every $2 put we put in as a Commonwealth Government the States put in an extra $1. Christopher said to the States it doesn't matter, we'll put in extra money but if you cut education funding in your own States that doesn't matter. Most importantly, the Gonski model said we give most to the kids who need it most and the schools who need it most and there's no guarantee that what Christopher is proposing gives that money to disadvantaged kids. You look at the report that came out this week, the PISA report and it shows that Australia has one of the biggest gaps in learning between the wealthiest kids and the poorest kids anywhere in the world and that's exactly what the Gonski model was designed to fix, put the most resources where they're most needed.
LISA WILKINSON:
Part of the problem is, you know, we saw those figures this week saying that Australia has really fallen behind in its educational standards in this country. Now, we had six years of Labor rule. Why didn't things improve during that time?
TANYA PLIBERSEK:
Because these are 15-year-old kids. They've had a whole career in the education system.
CHRISTOPHER PYNE:
So it's their fault?
TANYA PLIBERSEK:
No, I'm not saying it's their fault. I'm saying a good education system starts with top quality child care, it starts with preschool. Any parent will tell you, and Christopher I know you are a parent, that those early years of childhood are the most important learning time. So we've got to invest from the beginning in preschool, making sure that every child gets a year of preschool and making sure that our whole education system from day one focuses on lifting the most disadvantaged kids, the kids who start behind the eight ball.
LISA WILKINSON:
Last word, Christopher Pyne?
CHRISTOPHER PYNE:
Well Lisa, Labor took $1.2 billion out before the election.
TANYA PLIBERSEK:
That's not true Christopher, you can't keep saying that.
CHRISTOPHER PYNE:
I put it back in. Over six years, Labor spent $20 billion more in education and they've achieved the worst PISA result in history.
LISA WILKINSON:
The trouble is that $1.2 billion was never on the table, so you can't really take away something out that was never on the table?
CHRISTOPHER PYNE:
It was in the budget, it was in the economic statement of the Treasure before the election but it was taken out in the Pre-election Fiscal Outlook.
TANYA PLIBERSEK:
Lisa, this is…
CHRISTOPHER PYNE:
That’s 1.2… no, you had a lovely long run and I didn't interrupt you once.
TANYA PLIBERSEK:
No, but you need to tell the truth. This is…
CHRISTOPHER PYNE:
See you’ve got $1.2 billion out; we put $1.2 billion in. But it's not all about money, it's about teacher quality and PISA found this week that the one single determinant in Australia about the outcomes for students was not the school they were in but the teacher they were allocated.
TANYA PLIBERSEK:
And that's why you need the standards that come with known Gonski and you don't guarantee that. That $1.2 billion, that’s Western Australia, Northern Territory and Queensland that refused to take the extra money because they put politics…
CHRISTOPHER PYNE:
So you took the money back.
TANYA PLIBERSEK:
Because they put politics before kids…
CHRISTOPHER PYNE:
You put it into consolidated revenue.
TANYA PLIBERSEK:
That's just nonsense.
LISA WILKINSON:
Alright, you two might have to take this out the back. But in the meantime, thank you very much for that.
CHRISTOPHER PYNE:
Pleasure.
LISA WILKINSON:
Good to see you both.
CHRISTOPHER PYNE:
And you.
[ends]