Today Show

E&OE TRANSCRIPT
Interview – Today Show with Karl Stefanovic and Anthony Albanese
Friday 9 October 2015

SUBJECTS: Prayer groupsin schools, the economy.

KARL STEFANOVIC: For more, we’re joined by Industry Minister Christopher Pyne and Shadow Transport Minister, Anthony Albanese, gentlemen, good morning nice to see you.

CHRISTOPHER PYNE: Good morning Karl, morning Anthony.

ANTHONY ALBANESE: Good morning.

KARL STEFANOVIC: Let’s start with this one Chris. A Government adviser to the Australian Curriculum and Assessment and Reporting Authority says prayer groups and religious instruction in schools is a doorway to extremism. Kathy Burn says Prayer Groups should be banned in Government schools. Do you agree?

CHRISTOPHER PYNE: No I don’t agree. I don’t think prayer is the problem. Radicalization is the problem and that’s why when I was the Education Minister, I asked the state and territory ministers to join with me in a de-radicalization program in schools. Some Ministers said it was a good idea, some said that it wasn’t a problem. I think what Kathy Burn is saying is that you’re hanging a lantern on the problem saying we just can’t pretend there isn’t any radicalization in schools. But prayer is a good thing, it’s violence that is a bad thing, so let’s not address the wrong issue, let’s address the right issue.

KARL STEFANOVIC: I suppose it’s got to be the right kind of prayer, depending on your view point right?

CHRISTOPHER PYNE: Well I wouldn’t say that.

KARL STEFANOVIC: Well that’s what I’m asking you.

CHRISTOPHER PYNE: Whether it’s Muslim prayer, Catholic prayer, Pentagonal prayer…

KARL STEFANOVIC: Why shouldn’t it be out of schools completely?

CHRISTOPHER PYNE: Well because we have the highest concentration of non-government schools in the OECD in Australia, almost all of those are religious schools. I’ve got no problem with prayer in schools.

KARL STEFANOVIC: I mean government schools.

CHRISTOPHER PYNE: I’ve got no problem with prayer in Government schools either.

KARL STEFANOVIC: Ok, Anthony, what do you think?

ANTHONY ALBANESE: Oh look. I essentially agree with Christopher on this one. I think the problem here is that some people are obviously being radicalized through means, whether it be people getting into schools or online. We need to target, very effectively, that radicalization because if we get distracted by other issues, we won’t be as effective as we should be in targeting it. Of course, you know, it’s out there. It’s a big problem. It’s a problem particularly obviously with this incident last week. Everyone in Australia feels for Mr Cheng’s family.

CHRISTOPHER PYNE: But I had some State and Territory education Ministers, sorry Karl, saying that, when I raised that that there wasn’t even a problem in schools and we shouldn’t even pretend there was one. Well there clearly is a problem and we need to address it.

KARL STEFANOVIC Is there a problem in that school? In Parramatta?

CHRISTOPHER PYNE: Well I don’t know. I haven’t spoken to Adrian Piccioli about that but I know that what ACARA is saying is we need to look at the issue of radicalization and not pretend it isn’t happening. Not turn a blind eye, or you end up with incidents like the one we had this week in Parramatta.

KARL STEFANOVIC The PM has been ducking and weaving on terrorism all week. Why is that?

CHRISTOPHER PYNE: Well I don’t think he has been. What I think is that he’s trying to get the tone right. Which is that we want Muslim communities to be on board with the battle against terror - we don’t want them to feel marginalised and go further to the edges. We want them to be at the centre of addressing it. Families, communities, mosques, Muslim leaders: we need them to be part of our agenda.

KARL STEFANOVIC: Is it a political issue or is it a religious issue?

CHRISTOPHER PYNE: Which part, terror?

KARL STEFANOVIC: Yeah.

CHRISTOPHER PYNE: Well terror is neither a political or a religious issue.

KARL STEFANOVIC: In relation to Muslim extremism?

CHRISTOPHER PYNE: Well extremism of any kind is a bad thing Karl.

BEN FORDHAM: You’re softly softly on it. Is it a political or is it religious?

CHRISTOPHER PYNE: Well we don’t want to make the Muslim community of Australia feel like they are the victims, like they are the perpetrators. They are as much the victims as anyone who has been attacked because they are being maligned and smeared by the actions of a few. Now we have to address the actions of the few, apply the rule of law and have the Muslim communities united with us to stop this into the future.

KARL STEFANOVIC: Ok. This is what Mark Latham said on the Verdict last night.

MARK LATHAM [excerpt]: And it might also be time to say that Western Sydney needs a break from the wave of Muslim migration that results in long term unemployment…

KARL STEFANOVIC: Anthony?

ANTHONY ALBANESE: You know, that’s a provocative statement. What do you do? Check people’s religion as they go through some kind of non-existent border into Western Sydney. The problem here is extremism. And the problem here is Islamic fundamentalism is a problem. Some of the preachers are a problem that needs to be identified and called out for what it is, but real solutions put forward rather than trying to blame an entire community. This is a distortion of a religion. You know, there is nothing in, religion in general of whatever faith is about caring for one’s fellow human beings and having various views about who God is. But, what it isn’t, is a call for violent extremism, and that’s what we saw last Friday. A distortion and a terrorist act and it should be called out for it.

KARL STEFANOVIC: There are, as you would know, anti-Muslim protests scheduled across the weekend, they start tonight in Parramatta. Pauline Hanson’s campaign for tighter Muslim immigration laws for example, that’s been raised. What do you think about that?

CHRISTOPHER PYNE: Well I don’t believe in a racist immigration policy. I think that immigration policy should be colour blind.

KARL STEFANOVIC: She’s saying, no more mosques, no more Sharia Law.

CHRISTOPHER PYNE: Well I think that’s all, we don’t have Sharia Law in Australia and this kind of mad conspiracy theories that we see coming over the internet everyday into our electorate offices is dangerous stuff. Now we don’t want the extremes on either side of the debate. We don’t want Islamic fundamentalism, and we also don’t want right-wing, white supremacists. We want to have, as we’ve had in Australia for decades, a sensible nation that welcomes people from all around the world and over time they all become great, active and busy Australians.

KARL STEFANOVIC Let’s move on…

CHRISTOPHER PYNE. I remember the same debate used to happen about the Vietnamese back in the 1970s and 1980s. People were saying it’s going to change everything in Australia. Now, that is regarded as so old hat and the same thing will happen with this migration.

KARL STEFANOVIC: A couple of quick issues. Let’s talk about the economy. The IMF has released its global financial stability report which is pretty bleak reading on a Friday, let me tell you. I would say we could be heading towards some kind of GFC again, the middle of next year. What are you doing to cut back spending to prepare our economy for that?

CHRISTOPHER PYNE: Well thank God we got elected when we did because if Labor had stayed in power then the trajectory of debt of government spending was going to be 35% of GDP…

KARL STEFANOVIC: No, I’m asking about you know. You can’t keep blaming Labor.

CHRISTOPHER PYNE: No, I’m just telling you what we did. If Labor had been re-elected Karl….

ANTHONY ALBANESE: You should have new talking points. New leader, new talking points…

CHRISTOPHER PYNE: …by 2050, 35% of GDP would have been Government spending. Under us it will be around 25%.

KARL STEFANOVIC: …What are you doing to prepare for that eventuality?

CHRISTOPHER PYNE: Well I’m just trying to answer the question. Because of the policies we’ve put into place, the share of Government spending of GDP will be at least 10% less than it would have been under Labor and we’re making the hard decisions, which Labor aren’t supporting. If labor is re-elected, they have 50 billion dollars of spending measures and tax increases which they have rejected and they announced another 10 billion dollars yesterday in s extra spending. Where is the money coming from?

KARL STEFANOVIC: What’s wrong with the idea of more infrastructure?

CHRISTOPHER PYNE: Infrastructure is great, but where is all the money coming from, Karl?

ANTHONY ALBANESE: Well what we have under this government…

CHRISTOPHER PYNE: …There’s a money tree out the back…

ANTHONY ALBANESE: …Is spending that is higher than it was as a proportion of GDP, under the GFC. Spending has gone up under this government. They haven’t been effective at running the economy and at the same time that spending has gone up, investment in infrastructure has gone down by more than 20%. That’s why we announced yesterday, a plan for infrastructure and investment that includes projects like the Melbourne Metro, cross-river rail and importantly a rail line connecting Badgerys Creek to the rail network in Sydney. That’s critical for jobs and the future economic growth.

KARL STEFANOVIC: You’ve got to have the number for it though?

ANTHONY ALBANESE: Well we outlined yesterday, a way in which it would be funded.

CHRISTOPHER PYNE: They want to put $15 billion into foreign aid, where is the $15 billion coming from for foreign aid?

KARL STEFANOVIC: Don’t yell at me.

CHRISTOPHER PYNE: …I’m not.

ANTHONY ALBANESE: Scott Morrison at least was prepared to…

KARL STEFANOVIC: Can you two please stop yelling at me, my ear piece…

ANTHONY ALBANESE: At least he was prepared to back it in...

KARL STEFANOVIC: Finally, finally. Lastly.Now Christopher, we should congratulate him. He’s the Minster to the Innovation and Industry portfolio and Malcolm Turnbull has told you to release your inner revolutionary. Now we’re not sure what that means but we’ve got some things here that we’ve prepared. There he is!

CHRISTOPHER PYNE: Great. Joan of Arc…

KARL STEFANOVIC: That’s you, there you go.

CHRISTOPHER PYNE: There’s Karl. Anthony’s a bit closer to Karl Marx than what I am…

KARL STEFANOVIC: Who’s that there?

CHRISTOPHER PYNE: That’s Liberty from the French Revolution.

KARL STEFANOVIC: Well that’s you right there Christopher Pyne. Libertarian.

CHRISTOPHER PYNE: Thank you…

KARL STEFANOVIC: Did you like that or not?

CHRISTOPHER PYNE: I don’t mind, I couldn’t care less.

KARL STEFANOVIC: You’re funny! Thank you gentlemen.

CHRISTOPHER PYNE: It’s your turn next week.

ANTHONY ALBANESE: Yeah, righto.

CHRISTOPHER PYNE: Che Guevera has lost his hands! It wasn’t much of an ending…

KARL STEFANOVIC: Che Pyne. There it is. What can you say Lisa?

[ends]