Sky News ViewPoint

22 Mar 2015 Transcipt

E&OE TRANSCRIPT
Interview - Sky News Live Viewpoint with Chris Kenny
Sunday 22 March 2015

SUBJECT: Higher education reforms.

CHRIS KENNY: Christopher Pyne, welcome back to Viewpoint.

CHRISTOPHER PYNE: Thank you for having me.

CHRIS KENNY: Look, since the Abbott Government's been elected, we've seen the South Australian Liberals lose a state election from opposition, but one that they were expected to win, we've seen a Coalition government lose power in Victoria, and of course we saw the Campbell Newman Government lose power in Queensland earlier this year; if Mike Baird loses this week's New South Wales state election, the ramifications for Tony Abbott and the Federal Government will be very strong, won't they?

CHRISTOPHER PYNE: Well Chris these of course are the vagaries of politics, and every single election is its own particular circumstance, so I wouldn't necessarily assume that this has implications for the Federal Liberal Party. There was a time of course where Federal Labor governed in every state and territory, and the Commonwealth, and obviously that's not the case now so things do change. Now, I expect Mike Baird will be re-elected in New South Wales, because he is the right person to be the Premier of that state, he's got the right policies, they have the- a good four-year record, and they deserve another four years. And I think the New South Wales public recognise that, and I also think they probably believe that Labor is not ready for government in New South Wales, having presided over the Eddie Obeid, and Joe Tripodi, and Ian Macdonald period of Labor. I think the last thing New South Wales needs is to go back to those days.

CHRIS KENNY: Look of course there are primarily state issues at play, and we've talked tonight about privatisation in earlier interviews, but clearly there is concern about the Federal Government's unpopularity and Tony Abbott's unpopularity infecting, if you like, Mike Baird's campaign. Given all that, do you still think it was a bit rude for Mike Baird not to give Tony Abbott - the Prime Minister of the country for crying out loud - a speaking role at his campaign launch today?

CHRISTOPHER PYNE: Well state elections stand and fall on state issues, just like federal elections do. Tony Abbott has been part of the New South Wales campaign, obviously he lives in New South Wales when he's not in Canberra, and he's been part of that campaign. But I don't think it would have been necessary for Mike Baird to give Tony Abbott a speaking role. I don't remember any state or territory premier or chief minister being given a speaking role at the Federal Liberal launch in 2013.

CHRIS KENNY: Oh but come one, these guys are the- they're leading Liberal governments in New South Wales and Canberra, their electorates overlap, they're good mates, they barrack for the same rugby league team, they surf the same breaks, they're both religious family men, I mean, they're just- they're in lock-step; it's very unusual for Tony Abbott not to be introducing Mike Baird at the launch, or at least giving his Prime Ministerial imprimatur to the event.

CHRISTOPHER PYNE: Well I think that is reading too much into it to be honest. I mean, Colin Barnett was a long-standing premier of Western Australia when we held our launch in 2013, he wasn't asked to speak at the launch in spite of being the most senior Liberal in the country for some period of time. As I said, state issues rise and fall [audio skip] state elections rise or fall on state issues, federal elections rise and fall on federal issues; and that will be the case on Saturday. But I fully expect that the New South Wales public will re-elect a good Liberal National Government, and make sure that Labor has more time to get itself together in opposition. They certainly are not ready for government.

CHRIS KENNY: Okay. Well let's go back to your portfolio areas, and you rather famously and strenuously insisted last week on Sky News that you're a fixer when it came to higher education; those reforms have bitten the dust once again. You've fixed nothing there, have you.

CHRISTOPHER PYNE: Well Chris nothing's bitten the dust until someone's given up on it. Now, these reforms are very important for the sector and for students, the have the support of the vice-chancellors - 40 out or 41 vice-chancellors - they have support of the private education sector, the non-university higher education providers as well, they are vital for Australia to be competitive in the future; and I will return to them, and I will work with the crossbenchers to make sure we can meet whatever concerns they have to see these bills passed over the course of the next few months, because they are very, very important for Australia and our international education market.

So I'm not giving up on them because they are the right policy, they have the support of the sector, and I believe they will eventually be passed.

CHRIS KENNY: I notice you got a fortune cookie, you publicised a fortune cookie …

CHRISTOPHER PYNE: I did.

CHRIS KENNY: … message you got late last week that suggested you'd get there in the end.

CHRISTOPHER PYNE: Yes.

CHRIS KENNY: Who do you think you're going to be able to pick off? Which of the independent senators you believe can be convinced, and what are you prepared to offer them in exchange for passing these reforms?

CHRISTOPHER PYNE: Well I'm the first person to say, Chris, that I may well have been able to handle issues differently over the last six months in terms of these reforms. Over the next three months I will sit down and talk to each of the crossbenchers about things that we might be able to do. Labor and the Greens are determined to be wreckers, in spite of the fact that in private a number of Labor people have told me these are the right reforms and they hope we get them through, because they'd rather we did them than they did them. So this is the usual Labor hypocrisy that we get. I know that the Greens are opposed to them, so while that bloc continues to be there, the crossbenchers will be vitally important.

So I will patiently and painstakingly sit down and talk to the crossbenchers about what we can do to meet any concerns they have, because I'm not prepared to give up on reforms that are supported by the sector; they're the right policy, and I don't want to see them fail simply because of politics.

CHRIS KENNY: Have you given up completely on Labor? Are Labor just going to completely reject any reform in this area? You mentioned that there've been some Labor people speaking to you privately about supporting these reforms, of course publicly we've seen the former Labor federal education minister in John Dawkins support these reforms, and also the former Queensland premier in Peter Beattie strongly back them; do you think there's any chance at all that Labor will actually negotiate over some sort of reform in higher education?

CHRISTOPHER PYNE: Well Chris, I think a lot of Labor people are in despair about Bill Shorten's lack of policy substance and talking to those from outside politics and talking about it very loudly; whether it's Gareth Evans, Maxine McKew, Peter Beattie, John Dawkins. They're all supporting reform of one kind or the other. Bruce Chapman, Peter Dawkins, David Phillips, these were advisors to the previous Labor governments. They're all proposing suggestions for reform. It seems that Bill Shorten and Kim Carr are the only two people who don't recognise that we need to change universities.

Kim Carr's changes would take us back to the dark ages, where commander control from Canberra was the order of the day. Chris Bowen and Julia Gillard described their demand-driven system of undergraduate degrees as one of their great achievements. And yet Kim Carr wants to undo that and put caps back on that'll lock people out of university from low SES backgrounds. So…

CHRIS KENNY: Will you put…

CHRISTOPHER PYNE: …a lot of people are in despair.

CHRIS KENNY: Will you put exactly the same bill then back into the Parliament, so that this issue could be a double dissolution trigger?

CHRISTOPHER PYNE: Well the Government doesn't want a double dissolution trigger, obviously Chris, and I think lot of people in the press gallery have got themselves into quite a lather. Obviously, common sense is that we don't want double dissolution triggers, we want our bills passed. We've worked very hard, I've worked very hard to get this particular bill passed. The bill has been un-amended by the Senate. It was rejected at the second reading and therefore the bill remains as it was when it was passed by the House of Representatives.

CHRIS KENNY: Alright, well we mentioned earlier your interview with Sky News, with David Speers I think it was, where you touted yourself as The Fixer. The ABC's…

CHRISTOPHER PYNE: I didn't really say that, I said I had fixed the National Collaborative Research Infrastructure scheme funding, as I also fixed the curriculum, teacher training, explicit and direct instruction, etcetera.

CHRIS KENNY: Well, well, well…

CHRISTOPHER PYNE: I didn't call myself The Fixer, but as is the case in these things, a lot of people have decided that I did, in spite of the fact that factually that's not true. But I'm not embarrassed to be regarded as someone who fixes problems.

CHRIS KENNY: Well as long as you fix things. Let's have a look at what ABC Insiders did with that interview this morning, with a bit of a Star Wars theme.

[Excerpt from Insiders begins]

UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER 1: The Rebel Alliance is too well equipped.

CHRISTOPHER PYNE: I've dealt with it.

UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER 2: If the Rebels have obtained a complete technical readout of this station, it is possible, however unlikely, that they might find a weakness and exploit it.

CHRISTOPHER PYNE: I've fixed it.

UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER 3: The plans you refer to will soon be back in our hands.

CHRISTOPHER PYNE: I'm a fixer. I fixed it in another way, which you'll find out in the Budget.

UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER 2: The Rebellion will continue to garner support in the Imperial Senate.

CHRISTOPHER PYNE: I've fixed that, I've taken away that hurdle.

[End of excerpt]

CHRIS KENNY: Christopher Pyne, I think that's funny. I don't really know because I'm the only person on the planet who's never seen the Star Wars movies, but…

CHRISTOPHER PYNE: [Laughs] Well I've seen them all, because I have children aged seven to 14 and of course I saw them myself when they first came out in the late 1970s. But look, I'm a good sport, I take all these things in the spirit in which they're intended. In fact, I retweeted that and said I was available to JJ Abrams for Star Wars 7, if he was looking for any extras.

CHRIS KENNY: Well - but will you fix the problem? Will you commit to fixing this?

CHRISTOPHER PYNE: Well I think I've made it absolutely clear, Chris, that I'm not giving up on these reforms. They are very important. The sector supports them, they're the right policy. The bill will be brought back in the future. I intend to continue to have constructive discussions with the crossbench and I believe, in this term of Parliament, there will be a higher education reform because it's important.

CHRIS KENNY: Even though I haven't seen Star Wars, I am familiar from YouTube snippets, with the Star Wars famous bar scene. Is that what it's like for you, dealing with the independents, trying to get that extra vote to get these reforms through?

[Excerpt from Star Wars plays]

CHRISTOPHER PYNE: I think the truth about the crossbench is that six out of eight crossbench senators are new. Now it takes a long time to get your feet under the desk in Canberra, and I don't believe that they've done anything other than what they think is right. I'm prepared to work with them. I am reminded that in the Star Wars movies, of course, the Death Star, upon which all those gentlemen are sitting, explodes into a million pieces.

[Excerpt from Star Wars plays]

CHRISTOPHER PYNE: I hope that that doesn't happen to the polity that is Australian politics at the moment.

CHRIS KENNY: Alright. Thanks very much for your time, Christopher Pyne.

CHRISTOPHER PYNE: It's a pleasure.

[ends]