Sky News Saturday Agenda

SUBJECTS: Education funding; independent public schools; Liberal ad campaign E&OE................................ Hon Christopher Pyne MP: Good morning David. David Lipson: As you just heard there all of a sudden Campbell Newman is using the word agreement in his answers as this comes of course after the independent schools last week agreed to the reforms, it seems that the Government may have a bit of momentum here. Pyne: Well look far from it David. The Government’s new school funding model is in complete disarray and no longer resembles the model that was taken to the Budget in May. Queensland requires to sign up, money to start next year, extra hundreds of millions of dollars which the Federal Government simply doesn’t have. They want them to dismantle the federal interference powers that are part of the model. Victoria wants exactly the same but they want the Government to lift its offer from $3.5 billion to $7 billion and they want to start see that money start flowing next year. Now as we know the Governments model is a cut to spending over the next four years of $325 million and in years five and six apparently rivers of gold flow. Tasmania got a secret deal where they their indexation that they have to put in has been discounted. New South Wales doesn’t need to reach the student resource standard until, of 100% in four years, they only have to reach 95%. The ACT was given an extra $90 million. South Australia was given an extra $83 million. Now all of these secret deals, side arrangements and special agreements that the States and Territories have been offered mean that the Government surplus is basically blown and you have to believe that Labor will be able to deliver that. You have to win three, Labor has to win three elections to deliver that, so far from being close to being landed the Government’s program is in complete disarray and I think they are a long way from securing it. Lipson: You would have to admit though that Campbell Newman’s language is a lot more positive and open to the possibility of signing on? Pyne: I think Labor, if Labor is putting that out there then Labor is grasping at straws. Campbell Newman, Denis Napthine, the Premier Colin Barnett and Adam Giles in the Northern Territory have been absolutely clear, they do not want the Federal Minister for Education interfering in state schools. The Federal Government doesn’t run any state schools; they should be run by the State Governments. Now all this extra money that the Labor Party is claiming they’re putting into schools it starts in years five and six. In years five and six the Government’s planning on putting billions of dollars into schools. But between now and that time there’s a cut of $325 million. Now if you believe that Labor will deliver three election wins and then billions of dollars in five or six years from now then you have to suspend everything you know about the Labor Party. Suspend the fact they promised not to introduce a carbon tax and then introduced one. Suspend the fact that they promised not to dismantle John Howard’s border protection laws in a way that would allow asylum seekers in and then since that time since Kevin Rudd did it 45,000 boat arrivals at least have come. So you can’t believe what Labor tells you in five years, you have to only believe what you see in the Budget papers, in black and white and that’s a cut to school education. Lipson: Okay. So what will you do if you win government and there is only potentially let’s say, just WA that hasn’t signed on, that’s a hypothetical of course but I’m trying to lock you down on this, if one State hasn’t signed on, the rest have, will you keep this agreement? Pyne: Well David it’s very hard to ask me hypothetical questions. I mean you could go back to Bill Shorten and say to him what if only four jurisdictions out of eight have signed on and you have a special arrangement with each of those four that is different to the others, will you persist with pretending that you have a new school funding model when you clearly don’t, that is just as a legitimate question to Bill Shorten. If we win the election if we’re fortunate enough to win we will examine the situation that the Labor Party has left us, which at the moment is chaotic in terms of school funding. If a majority, if an overwhelming majority of States have agreed to it, then we‘ve said that we won’t create more uncertainty, if not we will persist with the current model which is fair, which is equitable which means that money gets to where it’s needed which is based on objective data and it rewards private investment. Lipson: But, well that overwhelming majority you have said that before but I’m just trying to work out exactly what that means, does that mean… Pyne: Well it means more than four out of eight. Lipson: Sure sure, but how many more? Pyne: Well, let’s wait and see if any more sign up. Lipson: There’s four left and you know, are we talking one more or are we talking two more States to sign up? If for example Queensland and Victoria do sign up, will you keep it? Pyne: Look David it’s not fair to play a hypothetical game with a Member of Parliament, I mean you should go back to Bill Shorten and say to him ‘don’t you think your model is in complete disarray when only four jurisdictions have agreed to it and each one has required a special agreement that is different to the others, do you really want to persist with pretending you have a new school funding model?’ Victoria for example, I’ve been through what Queensland wants, Victoria wants the Government to double its offer from $3.5 billion in five years’ time to $7 billion and they want the $7 billion to start flowing next year. They also want the Government to dismantle the school funding model. Now if the Federal Government agrees to that, then basically the Federal Government is happy to dismantle the new school funding model, hand the money to the States in five years from now and even starting next year, money it doesn’t have and basically give up. Now they will be, they will vindicate the Coalition’s position that they didn’t know what they were doing from the start and it will show that the Government isn’t fit to stay in office if it leaves school funding in such extraordinary disarray. Lipson: Well this week you actually said if most the rest of the States signed up well then you won’t get rid of it. Has that position changed, or is that still your position? Pyne: Well that’s an overwhelming a majority isn’t it? Lipson: Yeah, so okay, so you will keep it in place, okay. Well let’s say you do tear up this agreement, what would replace the funding model that is now in place and expires next year? Would you just replicate the current funding arrangements exactly? Pyne: Well we’re in the fortunate position David of knowing that the current funding model has been in place since the year 2000 and it works. We know that we are the only political party that can promise every single school in Australia will be better off if they vote Coalition because they’ll get the same quantum of funds they have now, plus generous indexation, which the government can’t promise. In fact there are hundreds of schools across Australia that will lose money under this new school system. Villanova in Brisbane where Tony Abbott was only on Friday would lose 17 % of its funds next year, so the Coalition is the only Party that can promise that every school from next year will get the same quantum of funds plus indexation at the current levels which means no school can be worse off. Labor can’t promise that so Labor is trying to sell a con on the Australian people and I think most of the States have worked it out. Lipson: Well what about the States that have signed up, would they be compensated if you win government and scrap this plan? Pyne: Well they won’t need to be compensated David because in fact the Government is cutting school funding over the next four years, including those States. Lipson: So no compensation will flow? Pyne: Well how could there be compensation when in fact the Coalition’s policy is more generous than the Governments? You see David, people need to pay bills next year, not in 2017. In 2014 schools will receive bills and have to pay them. Schools need to know next year how much money they will get and that is why neither Peter Garrett nor backstabbing Bill Shorten have been able to tell people how much money every school will get in 2014, 2015 and 2016 because he knows if he tells them he’ll have to admit he is cutting their funding next year. Lipson: In Chris Bowen’s new book released yesterday he called for Labor to adopt the British model of free schools. This is where parents, teachers and communities can actually set up schools that are government funded but not government run, would you consider following the British conservatives down this path if you win government? Pyne: Well I’d like to see Chris Bowen get that policy passed the Australian Education Union at Labor conference, but putting that to one side; well we already have a model in Western Australia called independent public schools which is a one line Budget item in the Western Australian state Budget. The money is provided to the school, the school is run locally by the principal, the bursar, his or her leadership team and a local governing council. It isn’t exactly a charter school system because there is still an element of state education department control over those schools but they are very very autonomous and I think that is an excellent model in Australia. I would like to see the independent public school model rolled out around Australia, and I know that it works because, we don’t need a conference on the Gold Coast or another paper to tell us, to advise us about this or another review, we know it works because Western Australia is the only jurisdiction in Australia since 1977 where there is a movement from non-government to government schools of students being moved by their parents. So parents are saying we like that model and we think we’re getting what we would otherwise pay for in a non-government school which is more principal autonomy, more local control, more local decision making. That’s the Coalition’s policy. Lipson: Okay so that is something that you would allow federally, you would roll out as official Coalition policy? Pyne: There’s no doubt about it, if we get elected, if we’re fortunate to win the election we will be rolling out independent public schools as our preferred principal autonomy model around Australia, in concert with the states, we’ll work with the states, but we provide a lot of funding federally and we believe given the extraordinary results that are being achieved in Western Australia, while money is one important element of the equation, the other important elements are principal autonomy, teacher quality, a robust curriculum and parental engagement. Labor talks endlessly about spending more money, which in five years from now by the way, but in fact the Coalition is focussed on the things that parents, teachers and principals know that are important, which is the quality of the teaching, what you’re teaching the students, the engagement of parents and the level of autonomy of the principals. Lipson: But would that autonomy fit within the national curriculum though or would those schools be allowed to go off the script as such? Pyne: No the national curriculum covers four subjects at the moment and has been extended and will cover many other subjects over the years ahead and that is the curriculum that is expected to be taught. So charter schools, not charter schools as Chris Bowen would call them, but independent public schools would not be able to go off the reservation so to speak, that’s why there has to be some element of control, there always has to be oversight of what our children are being taught. But we don’t need the heavy hand of the education bureaucracy that has stifled innovation and invention in education for decades. Lipson: And just finally before I let you go, the Coalition today is launching a fresh round of ads, one is positive, one is more of an attack ad at Kevin Rudd’s record. This is two and a half weeks after Kevin Rudd regained the leadership. It’s almost a week after he released his own ad calling for a positive polity. Why’s it taken so long for the Coalition to hit back? Pyne: Well David, we had ads on the television within days of Kevin Rudd coming back into the Prime Ministership… Lipson: But it wasn’t a full prime time ad campaign as Kevin Rudd’s was… Pyne: I’m not going to argue with you about it, but Kevin Rudd’s ran once for 45 seconds and I wouldn’t describe that as an ad campaign, I’d describe that as Kevin Rudd wanting to get himself on television yet again because of his Napoleonic sized ego. We do think Kevin Rudd in 2013 needs to be exposed for his record. 2007 Kevin Rudd ran on the basis that he was John Howard-lite. Once he got elected he started spending, he racked up the debt, he gave us the five biggest deficits in Australia’s history, he dismantled the border protection laws of the Howard Government having said he wouldn’t, having said he’d turn back the boats in 2007, in 2013 we’ve now had over 45,000 arrivals because of Kevin Rudd. He voted for and supported the carbon tax, he introduced the mining tax. So he has a record and it’s important the Australian people realise Kevin’s been in power for six years, he has a record and they need to know what it is, he’s not just Howard-lite like he tried to claim in 2007 and then claimed afterwards that he was a Christian Socialist, so Kevin needs to be exposed. On the other hand we have a positive ad about the Coalition’s team which is united and stable and has been the same for four years and the fact is if we’re elected we will have more experience in our frontbench than any new government coming into power, I think since Australia’s federation because 16 members of Tony Abbott’s Cabinet were Ministers in the Howard Government. At the moment you’d probably find there are less people who are Ministers, Cabinet Ministers than there were in Kevin Rudd’s current Cabinet than there were in John Howard’s leaving Cabinet because of the eight members that resigned only two weeks ago and refused to serve with Kevin. ENDS.