Doorstop - Adelaide

E&OE TRANSCRIPT Doorstop  Interview 8 September 2014 CHRISTOPHER PYNE: Well thankyou all very much for coming this morning. The 60 minutes show last night reminded us of the chaos and dysfunction that was the hallmark of the Gillard Government. The fact is that Labor chose to replace an honourable speaker in Harry Jenkins with Mr Peter Slipper and that is why we are here today because the actions that became known about Mr Slipper have caused two and a half years of trauma and heartache to James Ashby. If Labor hadn’t decided to replace Harry Jenkins with Peter Slipper we would not be here today. Let’s also consider the other reasons we are here today. There’s been allegations made about sexual harassment against Peter Slipper which Mr Ashby aired again last night. Mr Ashby settled an action with the Commonwealth for a sum of money and those allegations were then not pursued in the Federal Court after an appeals process. There’s also the fact that Mr Slipper has been found guilty of fraud against the Commonwealth and is awaiting sentencing. That is the outstanding matter. I stand by all the statements that I have made previously over the last two and a half years and I would remind everyone that these matters have been aired uphill and down dale for the last two and half years at least. Those were that I had no specific knowledge of the allegations that Mr Ashby made against Mr Slipper before I read about them in the newspapers and that I did not know about the action he was taking in the federal court until I read about it in the News Limited papers one Saturday morning. Those statements were true then and they remain true now. JOURNALIST: Did you have no specific knowledge what knowledge did you have and how did you obtain it? CHRISTOPHER PYNE: Well I had no specific knowledge of the allegations Mr Ashby later made that were contained in his affidavits in the federal court. Of course rumours always circulate around Parliament House in Canberra and rumours have circulated about Peter Slipper for some time. So I was generally aware of the tenor of the rumours that were circulating but I had no specific knowledge of the allegations. JOURNALIST: Did you meet with Mr Ashby before he made public his allegations against Mr Slipper? CHRISTOPHER PYNE: Well I had three meetings with Mr Ashby which I’ve detailed before. The first was when I met him in Peter Slippers office very briefly. The second was when I shared a drink with him and another staffer while I was waiting for Peter Slipper to come back from the adjournment debate when he was the speaker. And the third was when he came to collect a couple of bottles of wine that the then Leader of the Opposition had signed for a retiring staff member and that conversation was the crux of my involvement aired last night on 60 minutes. JOURNALIST: Did you confirm the offer of a job within either state or Federal LNP with Mr Ashby at your office? CHRISTOPHER PYNE: Well I had a brief meeting with Mr Ashby we discussed the fact that the Queensland state election was coming very soon. He indicated that he was very uncomfortable in Mr Slippers office and I indicated to him that if we won the Queensland state election that would be a chance potentially for him to get out of Mr Slippers office but the fact is there was no job ever provided to Mr Ashby and he admits that himself last night. JOURNALIST: Did you lead him to believe that there would be a job provided for him? CHRISTOPHER PYNE: Well Mr Ashby did not get a job from the Coalition, either from the Queensland LNP or Federal Government. JOURNALIST: But did you lead him to believe that he might? CHRISTOPHER PYNE: Certainly it was my intention to never lead him to believe that a job might be provided to him. But obviously if we won the Queensland state election and then subsequently the Federal election, when you are in government there are a lot more jobs available than when you are in opposition and if he felt uncomfortable in Mr Slippers office that would be a chance to get out of that office. JOURNALIST: [inaudible] did he say he felt harassed? CHRISTOPHER PYNE: Well as he said last night in the 60 minutes show, and I think we should point out Mr Ashby has been through quite a trauma for the last two and half to three years. I thought he was very courageous last night in telling his story. He came across as a very decent person who wants to put that unhappy period behind him and I think the whole country wants to put the unhappy period of the Gillard Government behind it. And therefore when he came to see me, and as he indicated it was a brief meeting, I didn’t have the knowledge that I do now about what he was talking about. JOURNALIST: He never expressed it to you? CHRISTOPHER PYNE: I certainly did not know about the allegations he subsequently made against Mr Slipper. Did I know that he felt uncomfortable in Peter Slippers office? Yes I did and that would not have been unusual because of the rumours that had circulated about Mr Slipper for some time. JOURNALIST: Did you raise those rumours with him? CHRISTOPHER PYNE: No JOURNALIST: Did you intimate to him that a lawyer would be provided to him? CHRISTOPHER PYNE: Mr Ashby said last night on the 60 minutes programme that it was made very clear to him that there would be no job and that there’d no lawyer and in fact he got his own lawyers and took his own actions in the Federal court and the rest is history. JOURNALIST: But at a meeting in your office did you ever intimate to him or confirm an offer to him of a lawyer? CHRISTOPHER PYNE: Well no solicitor was provided to Mr Ashby. JOURNALIST: But did you intimate to him that one might be? CHRISTOPHER PYNE: I spoke to Mr Ashby briefly and we canvassed the fact that he felt uncomfortable in Peter Slippers office. Obviously it would be very sensible if he felt that he was uncomfortable and as it turned out he made allegations about sexual harassment, it would be very sensible for him to get good legal advice. He subsequently did get good legal advice, but I did not provide it. JOURNALIST: Did you give him the impression that you would organise legal advice for him? CHRISTOPHER PYNE: That was not my intention no. JOURNALIST: Do you think that you did give him that impression? CHRISTOPHER PYNE: No I don’t believe I did. JOURNALIST: Did you say to Mr Ashby that you would discredit him if he ever tried to discuss the meeting that he had. CHRISTOPHER PYNE: Obviously as the Manager of Opposition Business that I had a relationship with the speaker and his office which was important to maintain. Remember that Mr Slipper had been a Deputy Speaker and then was the speaker. The manager of opposition business spends a lot of time in the parliament, in the chamber, and given the circumstances of him replacing Harry Jenkins obviously one of my roles was to maintain a relationship with the speaker and his office. So if I did make those remarks it would have been to indicate that it would be best if Mr Slipper wasn’t aware that his staff was in my office telling me that he felt uncomfortable in his office. JOURNALIST: Did you threaten to call him a pathological liar publicly? CHRISTOPHER PYNE: Well I certainly would not have used that language and I would have indicated that when the speaker’s staff were in my office telling me he felt uncomfortable that that would affect my relationship with Mr Slipper as the speaker if that became known. JOURNALIST: Who is lying? Somebody’s lying here, who is it? CHRISTOPHER PYNE: Well Mr Ashby made it clear that  nobody was lying, and I watched the programme last night and I felt that he was a courageous young man standing up for his interests. JOURNALIST: Surely someone is lying? CHRISTOPHER PYNE: I don’t think that is the case and… JOURNALIST: Well if he’s not lying he must be telling the truth. CHRISTOPHER PYNE: Sometimes people misinterpret conversations that are made and that are held. But let’s understand the fundamental issue here. The fundamental issue is that Mr Ashby made allegations against Mr Slipper about sexual harassment. They were settled in an out of court settlement with the Commonwealth and then were subsequently not pursued further down the track after an appeal process. Mr Slipper was also accused of fraud against the Commonwealth and he’s been found guilty of that and awaits sentencing. The Australian public deserves a Government that is getting on with the job of governing, I’m trying to bring about reforms in higher education which I think will be very important to the country. And subsequently after this meeting, after this press conference I’m going to China and Laos in order to sell international education and meet with the Chinese ministers of education and others, so we’re getting on with the job. JOURNALIST: But if Mr Ashby had a conversation with you Mr Pyne, where you concede that he may have been given the impression that legal advice may be provided and that a job may be provided then it stands to reason that he raised with you the prospect that he would be making allegations against Mr Slipper? CHRISTOPHER PYNE: Well I haven’t admitted that and I’m not going to have you put words in my mouth Tom, I haven’t admitted that, I’ve told you exactly my recollection of that conversation and I’ve also said that I stand by my two very clear statements that I’ve made for two and half years that is that I had no specific knowledge of the allegations Mr Ashby subsequently made and that I was not aware of the sexual harassment case that he was then to lodge until I read it in the News Limited papers. JOURNALIST: Well he signed a stat dec are you prepared to sign a stat dec as well? CHRISTOPHER PYNE: Well I don’t think it’s in the interests of the country or the public for there to be a constant trawling over of a two and a half year old story.  The reality is that Mr Ashby wants to move on from this story, he’s told his story on 60 Minutes, and I think the public deserve for us to move on from the story that has been a reminder of the sordid, despicable nature of the Gillard government, the chaos and dysfunction that we were put through for three years, we want to get on with the job of governing, and I intend to do just that. JOURNALIST: But clearly Ashby has raised these further questions that we really need to settle, so is he a pathological liar or is he not? CHRISTOPHER PYNE: I’m sorry you might want to repeat that question. JOURNALIST:Well by going on 60 Minutes and raising these issues, we have not gotten to the bottom of this, it is an old story but we need to put it to bed, so is he pathological liar or is he not a pathological liar? CHRISTOPHER PYNE: I’m certainly not going to add to the hurt that Mr Ashby has already suffered for at least two and a half years, probably closer to three years. He’s been through trauma and I don’t think that either he or the Australian public want to trawl over the details of this sordid story again and again and again. I’m not going to play tit for tat with anybody in this debate. I feel a deep sense of sorrow that Mr Ashby went through what he went through and I think he deserves to be allowed to get on with his life. JOURNALIST: Did you speak about the details in terms of providing Mr Ashby a job or a lawyer with either the Prime Minister, Mal Brough or Wyatt Roy? CHRISTOPHER PYNE: Well I have lots of conversations with my colleagues about all sorts of matters, as Manager of Opposition Business in the House colleagues sometimes come to me when they have staff issues or if they are aware of staffing issues. If they did that then I would provide them with the necessary information to be able to meet their responsibilities. Now if that was the case then it would be the normal and correct thing for me to do to provide that kind of support and information to my colleagues but I’m not going to breach their privacy… JOURNALIST: Did you provide that information to Tony Abbott? CHRISTOPHER PYNE: Mr Abbott and I have lots and lots of conversations. Were we aware of rumours about Mr Slipper? Well everyone in Canberra in Parliament House was aware of rumours about Mr Slipper going back many years… JOURNALIST: Did you suggest to him that the LNP may provide a job to Mr Ashby? CHRISTOPHER PYNE: Did I suggest that to Mr Abbott? JOURNALIST: Yes CHRISTOPHER PYNE: No. JOURNALIST: Did you ask him about it? Did you raise it with him? CHRISTOPHER PYNE: No. JOURNALIST: What about with Mal Brough? CHRISTOPHER PYNE: No. JOURNALIST: Are you willing to categorically deny that you had any prior knowledge of this before it hit the papers? CHRISTOPHER PYNE: What I’ve said is I had no specific knowledge of the allegations. I’m quite prepared to repeat that statement today. I had no specific knowledge of the allegations… JOURNALIST: What does that mean? CHRISTOPHER PYNE: Well it means I wasn’t aware of the allegations, the nature of the allegations. Now the nature of the allegations, told again last night by Mr Ashby detailed in his affidavit are particularly unpleasant. I’m not going to repeat those. JOURNALIST: You say you were aware there were rumours circulating and you were aware he was unhappy in his office. You discussed this issue with him in your office? Is that correct? CHRISTOPHER PYNE: Well Mr Ashby came to my office to collect a couple bottles of wine that Tony Abbott has signed for a retiring staff member. JOURNALIST: Did you raise with him the issue of his discontent with his office? CHRISTOPHER PYNE: No. JOURNALIST: Did you discuss the rumours that you concede you were aware of his discontent. CHRISTOPHER PYNE: No. JOURNALIST: So it wasn’t raised at all? CHRISTOPHER PYNE: He indicated to me that he was uncomfortable in Peter Slipper’s office. JOURNALIST: Did you ask why? CHRISTOPHER PYNE: No. JOURNALIST: You didn’t ask why? CHRISTOPHER PYNE: Well no, I didn’t. JOURNALIST: Doesn’t that strike you as unusual that you wouldn’t ask why he’s unconformable in his office? CHRISTOPHER PYNE: The specific allegations that he’s made against Mr Slipper have been detailed in his affidavit, in the court case, in the subsequent court case involving fraud against the Commonwealth which Mr Slipper’s been found guilty of. He detailed them again last night in the 60 minutes show I thought very bravely. Did he raise those specific allegations with me when he came to pick up those couple of bottles of wine, no he didn’t. JOURNALIST: What about the allegations against you though? Why would he think that you were prepared to call him a pathological liar? CHRISTOPHER PYNE: You seem to be a bit stuck on that particular question. I think that what I’ve indicated is I’ve had an ongoing relationship with Peter Slipper as the speaker. As the Manager of Opposition in the House, one of my jobs is to get along with the speaker. And the fact that if Mr Slipper had been aware that his staff members had visiting me to collect two bottles of wine and indicated he was uncomfortable in that office that might have impacted on my relationship with Mr Slipper. Now, as it turned out, Mr Slipper’s tenure of speaker did not last very long for the reasons that we now know and really Labor need to answer the question, why did Labor think that replacing Henry Jenkins with Peter Slipper was a good idea? And what’s been obviously learnt is that it’s a very bad idea. JOURNALIST: So that was a threat against Ashby in order to protect the relationship with Slipper? CHRISTOPHER PYNE: No I wouldn’t characterise it in that way no. JOURNALIST: This has affected your reputation. Are you going to sue Mr Ashby? CHRISTOPHER PYNE: I have absolutely nothing to sue Mr Ashby about. JOURNALIST: If in your position at the time were aware that Mr Ashby had allegations against Mr Slipper would you consider it appropriate to offer legal counsel or to pay for legal counsel through party funds.  Or to offer a job within the party? Would you consider that an appropriate helping hand to someone in that position? CHRISTOPHER PYNE: Well as Mr Ashby indicated last night and as was clear from his affidavit in the court, he was offered no inducement at all to take the action that he took. That is a very important point and I’m glad you’ve raised it Tom. Mr Ashby also indicated that he didn’t speak to me again at all about this matter after the meeting in my office to collect the two bottles of wine. Never discussed it with me again. What then happened as we now know is he approached other members of the LNP in Queensland and Mal Brough has outlined his position and Mal Brough as a member of the LNP took it upon himself to assist Mr Ashby and as he has said he felt that it was his duty as a citizen and a human being to protect and help somebody who was clearly in difficulty and after that, that matter was entirely out of my hands. JOURNALIST: It’s clear that he came away from that meeting or that discussion in your office, bottles of wine in hand with the impression that he would be given a job and the impression he would be given legal counsel, or that his legal counsel would be paid for. You’ve concedied that would have been a reasonable impression for him to have garnered. Can you tell us specifically what you said to him that gave him that impression? CHRISTOPHER PYNE: Well he subsequently had a meeting with David Russell which has been made clear and which David Russell indicated to him that there would be no job and that there’d be no legal support. Mr Ashby… JOURNALIST: But why did he have that impression when he left your office? CHRISTOPHER PYNE: Well Mr Ashby has outlined his story last night. I think that has been canvassed uphill and down dale, and I think…. JOURNALIST: Sure, but can you just tell us why he may have misinterpreted as an offer of a job and legal counsel. CHRISTOPHER PYNE: Well I think I’ve covered that subject and as I’ve said, I’m…. JOURNALIST: I’m still a bit unclear on it. CHRISTOPHER PYNE: Well I’m not unclear on it and I think that the public are quite clear about a couple of things. They’re absolutely clear that Labor should never have replaced Henry Jenkins with Peter Slipper. They’re absolutely clear that if Labor hadn’t done that, we would not be standing here today discussing what has been a traumatic period for James Ashby and they bare the blame for that. Other members of the Coalition have assisted Mr Ashby and that has been on the public record because they thought that he needed support and he was never offered a job. He was never offered legal counsel. He made that clear himself last night and I’m not going to get into a tit for tat argument about parsing every sentence and paragraph of interviews made by the people. JOURNALIST: Is there a case now for another enquiry about this? Do you think this is going somewhere higher just to clear the air? CHRISTOPHER PYNE: No, I don’t think so. The only outstanding matter in the sorry affair of Mr Slipper’s speakership is the sentencing of Mr Slipper for fraud against the Commonwealth. I mean, that’s where at the end of the day, there are two core issues. The allegations of sexual harassment, which the Commonwealth settled with James Ashby when Labor was in power and the fraud against the Commonwealth and later this month Mr Slipper will be sentenced. JOURNALIST: Did you and Mr Roy have an understanding of these allegations and agreed to what has happened? CHRISTOPHER PYNE: Well Mr Roy and I are good friends and he’s a valued colleague and of course he will answer for himself about his involvement. But if I’m approached by a colleague who indicates that they need some support because of a staffing issue, my responsibility is to help that colleague and of course that’s exactly what I did. JOURNALIST: Minister, just on another issue. Regional universities today are calling for safeguards for low income students and greater structural support. Is that something that you sympathise with and would be willing to have the amendments for in your legislation? CHRISTOPHER PYNE: Well the regional Universities network and the G8 have put out a statement today, indicating that they want the government’s higher education reforms passed, that they support the deregulation of fees. Both the G8 and RUN, the regional Universities Network indicates that there should be extra support for regional universities and particularly a potential transition phase. I’m open to any suggestion from the cross-benchers and the Labor party or the Greens for that matter in the Senate because I think these reforms are vital for students and for our universities and I will consider  any proposal put to me by the cross benchers and by the universities. But fundamentally, the universities are united in supporting and believing these reforms should be passed and I agree with them. JOURNALIST: There are reports today that the next generation of subs are to be built, confirmed to be built in Japan, rather than South Australia. That would be a broken election commitment would it not? CHRISTOPHER PYNE: Well Tom, there is an unconfirmed report on the front page of the Advertiser today with sources, certainly not the Defence Minister, not the Prime Minister. In fact both the Prime Minister and the Defence Ministers quotations in the story are precisely what they’ve said all along and the Prime Minister repeated them again today. There’ll be a decision made about the next generation of sub-marines. They are probably our most potent and important part of our armoury. We have to make a decision based on defence needs, not industry needs, not regional needs, but the Prime Minister has indicated that the work that is done in Australia will be done here in Adelaide which will mean hundreds and hundreds of jobs for South Australia and… JOURNALIST: But as a South Australian frontbencher though are you concerned that the contract appears likely not to be…not to go to South Australia as it was intended. CHRISTOPHER PYNE: I don’t think that is the gist of the Government’s decision making process. I think that is something of a speculative story. As the South Australian Cabinet Minister, obviously, I want to do everything in my power to ensure that South Australians have jobs and that our economy is growing, and I wish the State Labor government would focus on that too, rather than focusing on the petty politics and point scoring that they focus on every day. JOURNALIST: Do you think South Australia has the capability to build the submarines? CHRISTOPHER PYNE: Absolutely. South Australia and the ASC has a great record of building submarines and are building the Air Warfare destroyers right now as we speak they are providing thousands of jobs… JOURNALIST: Is your understanding that they will be 30% more expensive to build here? CHRISTOPHER PYNE: Well they’re providing thousands of jobs for South Australians but also they’re providing extremely important defence initiatives for our whole country and that’s the basis upon which we should make a decision. I’ll do everything I can to fight for South Australia and just recently of course, The Advertiser also revealed that we have allowed BHP Billiton to rely on their previous environmental impact statements for the expansion of Olympic Dam; no thanks to the State Labor Government. We are getting on with trying to unlock that enormous potential for South Australia at Roxby downs. Everything I do like the North/South corridor support that will provide enormous infrastructure gains for South Australia seems to be done in the teeth of opposition from the State Labor Party and again I wish that their Treasure would perhaps stop tweeting and texting and start actually studying how he might be able to grow the economy and create jobs for South Australians. JOURNALIST: So you’ll be kicking heads and twisting arms in Cabinet to get this contract to South Australia? CHRISTOPHER PYNE: I’ll be doing what I always do and have done for two decades as the member for Sturt, which is lobby for and support South Australia in everything I do. Whether it’s agriculture, the wine industry, the pastoral industry, mining, manufacturing, high-tech manufacturing, research, supporting our three universities here, the SAHMRI, everything I do in Canberra is designed to look after the constituency of Sturt and the wider city of Adelaide and the state of South Australia. JOURNALIST: Minister, how can you guarantee those jobs when you have the case of Rossi boots and the guidelines from the DMO don’t allow for local businesses to have consideration over international businesses? CHRISTOPHER PYNE: Well I think it’s very unfortunate that the Rossi boots contract went to a different provider. The guidelines and the process for that begun under the previous government and was lobbed on the desk of the Defence Minister after the decisions had been made. I’ve certainly talked to my colleagues in Canberra about that. I know that the Prime Minister, the Defence Minister and I all believe that that should be handled differently in the future and I have spoken obviously to Rossi Boots and I will continue to support them. It’s a good example of how Labor made a mess of defence contracting in this state and again the State Labor government, I think figures recently that I saw, or maybe in the last six months, show that even 50%, more than 50% of State administration, State machinery of Government was being conducted by other States, not Adelaide businesses. So, we’ve got to put our money where our mouth is and support South Australian businesses. JOURNALIST: As an observer Minister though, you have to get the impression reading the…[inaudible]… about this project that it’s doomed for South Australia in terms of the build. CHRISTOPHER PYNE: No I don’t agree with that Christopher. I mean, I think the truth is there is a lot of hyperventilating about it. And rather than hyperventilating we should calmly, methodically and in a considered way ensure that the best decisions are made from a defence perspective and South Australia will be the big beneficiary of whatever decision is made, because the Australian Submarine Corporation is here at Osborne. JOURNALIST: [inaudible] jumped up on a husting and howled loudly and proudly for the project in South Australia. CHRISTOPHER PYNE: I do, I’m absolutely enthusiastic about the Australian Submarine Corporation and not just that defence work but any defence work at all. More than 30% of the Australian defence industry is conducted in South Australia, it’s one of our great success stories. So rather than ringing our hands we should simply get on with the job of ensuring the maximum number of jobs and work here in South Australia. I think with that I better zip, as the former Prime Minister used to say, because I have to go to China and you don’t want me to miss my plane. [ends]