ABC 891

SUBJECTS: School Funding E&OE............................... Presenter: Good Morning Mark. Butler: Good Morning gentlemen. Presenter: And Chris Pyne is Liberal MP for Sturt and Shadow Minister for education. Good morning to you Christopher Pyne. Pyne: Morning Matthew, David and Mark. Presenter: Chris Pyne, we’ll come to Mark Butler on Gonski in a moment, but is the Opposition committed to the Governments formula for the Gonski Funding? Pyne: Well we are not committed to it because we don’t know yet what the outcome of Council of Australian Governments on Friday will be. There is no new funding model at this stage. The Prime Minister has announced that the States have until June 30 to agree to it. The Parliament rises on June 27 so in fact, the Government plans to legislate for a new school funding model in spite of the fact that potentially, by the time Parliament rises and doesn’t sit again before the election, no State may have agreed to a new school funding model, now as all the States.. Presenter: Can they lock you into something this Friday, which would tie your hands after the next election or is the Coalition thinking look it doesn’t really matter, they are just all going through the motions; is there a rearrange in deck chairs on the Titanic and we will sort it out when we get into office? Pyne: Well the Government has left it all very, very late in their latest example of complete incompetence and shambolic administration. They’ve had this Gonski report since November 2011… Presenter: Yes, I didn’t ask you if it was shambolic, I asked you will they tie your hands? Pyne: Well they could. They could quite easily do so and we have said that if the States sign up to it, if the catholic sector and the independent schools sign up to it that we won’t tinker, change, alter it because we think there needs to be certainty in the education sector. Now the more work I am doing on this model, the more I’m discovering that in fact South Australia, Western Australia and the ACT will actually lose money in real terms over the next six years if this school funding model goes ahead as it is. Presenter: Ok, Mark Butler does it warm the cockles of your heart to learn that really the federal Government is handcuffing the opposition to its agenda, if it were to win the election. Butler: Well if it did that would essentially be a bi-product of what we are doing which is an incredibly important education policy reform. Christopher’s spent this week, behaving as if he woke up on Sunday morning shell-shocked that we had decided to peruse a national school improvement plan, I mean the Prime Minister has been talking about this for a very long time. The modelling has been the subject of intensive discussion with State and Territory Governments and with the catholic and independent schools authorities for a very long time and we are now at the delivery point, we are now at the delivery point of an incredibly exciting school improvement policy. I mean people interested in education policy are incredibly excited at where we are at this week; I mean Christopher is trying to…. Pyne: Well not the higher education sector. Butler: … Is trying valiantly to throw a wet blanket on it, but none the less, teachers, parents, principles, people interested in this area know that this is a revolutionary point we are at. For the first time we are talking about a system that would guarantee funding for every school student in Australia, no matter if they lived in South Australia or Tasmania where I am today. No matter whether they go to a State school, a catholic school, an independent school, a minimum level of funding across Australia is quite a revolutionary point for us to be at and I’m… Presenter: Mark Butler, why is South Australia getting less when it has some of the lowest standards in literacy and numeracy in Australia on the testing, despite spending more than other states? Butler: Well the essence of this policy is to reach a national level of funding for every school student, base level of funding for every schools student across Australia. On top of which there would then be loadings for students or for schools depending on particular types of disadvantage. Now, the fact is that the South Australia Government, to their credit have increased schools funding over the past several years, so they have a shorter distance to travel to get to that national standard. Some other States haven’t done that and have a longer distance to travel. So South Australia will, the South Australian government that is will have to put in about a hundred million dollars over this period to get to the point. The NSW Government is going to have to put in 17 times that amount to get to the national standard. Queensland I think around 13 times. So South Australia is in a better position, as is WA and some of the eastern states. But the point is that our Government wants to get to a national standard so that all school students across the country can be guaranteed of a decent level of funding, no matter the vagaries of state government policies …. Presenter: By 2016, 2019? There’s a cartoon in the paper with a little kid saying to the Prime Minister “You’ll be ‘Gone-ski’ and I’ll be ‘Gone-ski’ by the time this money comes through. Butler: Well look, all of these things take a little while to implement. We’re intending to start it next year. The current school funding arrangements ceases at the end of this calendar year and we’re intending to start it this year sorry, next year. Now, quite how fast we are able to travel will depend on some pretty furious negotiations I suspect with different state governments but we’re committed to starting this as quickly as we can and getting to a national point of consistency as quickly as we can. Presenter: Mark Butler we put more money here in South Australia into education than the other states, yes? As a State government, yes? Butler: Well, I mean not every other state necessarily. I think than some of the eastern states. Particularly New South Wales and some of the eastern states are in…(inaudible). Presenter: And yet our literacy and numeracy results are right down the bottom, so maybe throwing more money at the problem is not the solution. Butler: Well I think it is important to say that more money is a means to an end and the end is to get a better school system in place. To make sure that we’re able to rediscover our position near the top of the rankings. We are at the top of the rankings across the world in terms of educational outcomes. The base level of funding is really important to make sure that all students get a minimum level of education standards across the country but then you need to give schools opportunities to deal with some of those disadvantages you’ve talked about, around … Presenter: Can we just work out why, in South Australia despite us throwing a lot of money at the problem, we’re down the bottom. Work out that first before you allocate even more money to the system. Butler: Well, what we’ve found over the last few years where we’ve had partnerships with state governments including South Australia for example to target literacy and numeracy is that they’ve achieved good results and they’re results we need to build on there’s no question of that but they’ve achieved good results. Partnerships around schools with low economic …. Presenter: South Australia does not receive good results in literacy and numeracy. Butler: Well I’m talking about improvements in some of the key literacy and numeracy … Pyne: We’re going backward in NAPLAN actually. Well what Mark Butler has to explain gentlemen is if this policy is so revolutionary that in fact it represents a saving to the federal government in education spending because of the $11 billion of cuts across the education sector and in South Australia …. Presenter: It’s re allocating money and you’re going to have to do that Pyne: No no, it’s cutting a lot of money. $2.8 billion on higher education. Its cutting $3.9 billion in last year’s MYEFO, $600 million in the computers for schools programme, $1.2 billion. Yes, the spending is less than $9.4 billion so in fact this represents a saving to government, federal government of $1.6 billion and what Mark Butler has to explain is with three universities in South Australia, we are going backwards. Presenter: Chris Pyne, Chris we need to go Chris Pyne, thank you Shadow Minister for Education. ENDS.