ABC Radio National

SUBJECTS: The budget; Craig Thomson saga

E&OE………

Fran Kelly: Christopher Pyne welcome again to breakfast.

Christopher Pyne: Good morning Fran.

Kelly: Why don’t you trust 1.3 million Australian families to spend their money wisely?

Pyne: Well, we do trust families to spend their own money and that’s why in the Howard Government we kept reducing income taxes. We kept giving them income tax cuts because we think that families should make their own decisions about how they spend their money.

Kelly: You also gave them the odd bonus too.

Pyne: We gave them broad based bonuses, especially the pensioners towards the end of the financial year when we knew we had strong surpluses….

Kelly: So what’s the difference between that bonus to pensioners and the Government handing a school kids bonus to parents now?

Pyne: Well, there’s a big difference and the difference is this. The bonuses or the support that the Howard Government gave to Australian families were always linked to a policy outcome. So, for example the baby bonus was linked to increasing our population and therefore had a policy basis to it. The problem with this schoolkids bonus is that it doesn’t have any link to any policy outcome.

Kelly: That’s not true. It’s a school kids bonus. It’s for school expenses.

Pyne: It’s not an education payment. There’s not a requirement to show any spending on school….

Kelly: But neither is there for the baby bonus.

Pyne: Fran, it’s not an education payment. It is simply a cash splash to some Australian families on low incomes. There are many other Australian families; in fact more families are missing out on this bonus than are getting it because of the Government’s class warefare narrative that they are trying to run.

Kelly: You mean it’s means tested?

Pyne: It is only being provided to people on incomes, on combined family incomes of $80,000 and therefore it is being missed out on by many, many families. Now…

Kelly: Yes, but don’t the families living on $80,000 or less that need the support to pay for their kids to go to school in shoes that don’t have holes in them, in shoes that fit with a bag to carry their books? Aren’t they the ones who need it?

Pyne: If they’re tyring to provide more money for families so that they can afford the necessities of life the first thing the Government should do is abandon the carbon tax. That’s number one. Secondly…..

Kelly: (inaudible)

Pyne: No, you asked me how we could support families who are struggling to get to school with holes in their shoes and I can tell you that. There’s two ways we can do it. Number one, we don’t introduce an economy wide carbon tax and that’s what the Government is doing and this bonus is simply compensation for that for some families. Secondly, the best way to do that is to reduce income tax across the board and that’s what the Howard Government did.

Kelly: This Government has just cut income tax too in this budget.

Pyne: No they haven’t.

Kelly: Yes they have.

Pyne: This Government delivered the Costello income tax cuts.

Kelly: Tax cuts were delivered in this budget.

Pyne: In terms of the tax free threshold?

Kelly: Yes.

Pyne: That’s true, but not the sort of income tax cuts that the Howard-Costello Government delivered over 11 and a half years which lead to a 22 per cent real increase in wages in this country.

Kelly: One of the arguments from the Opposition when you were arguing against the delivery of this school kids bonus, which you described as a bribe or a sugar hit is that parents could do anything with it. They could go to the pub or put it in the pokies.

Pyne: They can.

Kelly: Don’t you trust Australian parents to look after their kids – give them money to do that?

Pyne: Governments should be transparent about their policies. Now, the Government should simply say “we’ve made a mess of introduction of the carbon tax. The compensation isn’t enough so we are going to give some families more cash in this cash splash.” Just like the $900 cheques the Government sent out.

Kelly: This is replacing an education bonus that parents weren’t accessing all of them because they weren’t managing to get the receipts together and claim it. They weren’t claiming what they were entitled to. So this is directly comparable to an education bonus that was there. The Government is changing the way it’s delivering it. Let me ask you. You’ve got kids in school. You know how expensive it is.

Pyne: Sure.

Kelly: Exactly. If you were given $400 or $800 for each kid, how would you spend it? Would you spend it one their school costs?

Pyne: Well, Fran, when the money came in, you spend it one whatever bills you have at that particular time and I can tell you that you don’t pay all your school bills in June. The Government is delivering the school kids bonus in June just before the carbon tax comes in. The big costs associated with school kids are in January and February when you are buying shoes, buying new uniforms, buying books, covering exercise books, buying pens and pencils. That’s when the expense is starting, not in June. So that just makes it transparently obvious this is carbon tax compensation.

Kelly: Well isn’t there a problem with that argument because both you and the government had policies that were education subsidies, you wouldn’t get that money in January, you’d get that when you put in your tax return.

Pyne: Our education tax rebate policy at the last election, was a much better policy then this government’s policy…

Kelly: It’s a more expensive policy.

Pyne: It was more expensive, and I can tell you, we said we would take into account all aspects of education spending by families, whether it was: extra tutoring for dyslexic children, whether it was school fees itself, could be uniforms, could be computers…

Kelly: But there is nothing to stop families spending this money that the government will send in a cheque that gets in their bank accounts in June on any of those things.

Pyne: And there is nothing to stop them spending it on pokies as well.

Kelly: So you don’t trust Australian families to spend it responsibly.

Pyne: No, not at all, I do trust Australian families. The truth is the Howard Government trusted them so much we reduced their income tax dramatically over eleven and a half years. We could afford to pay them bonuses and support because we were running surplus budgets. This government has run $167 billion dollars of deficits over the last four years.

Kelly: With the global financial crisis in the middle of that…

Pyne: Well we had the Asian Financial Crisis Fran
(inaudible)

Kelly: Well that was on a different scale…

Pyne: No, not at all. We had the Asian financial Crisis we had the appalling Tsunami ( inaudible) in Indonesia that killed so many people, that cost Australia and Asia a great deal of money to repair those countries that were affected…. Every government has to deal with natural disasters and financial matters.

Kelly: You are not truly equating the Asian Financial Crisis with the Global Financial Crisis?

Pyne: The government will use any excuse Fran, to avoid the truth which is that they are a big spending government; they are a high taxing government. Taxes have gone up since this government have come to power, spending has gone up $100 billion dollars since this government came to power and they never cut their own costs to suit their circumstances, they always tax the Australian Tax payer more.

Kelly: If that’s your logic then, does that mean that the Coalition won’t support the other budget payments to households (inaudible) in this budget? the.. increase in family tax benefits and the supplementary allowances to the unemployed and to students? Because I thought that Joe Hockey indicated yesterday on this program, that the Coalition was inclined to support those.

Pyne: No Fran we are supporting those, because we understand that living below the poverty line is unbelievably difficult and people shouldn’t be placed in that position. Now that is income support.

Kelly: What about the family tax benefit A? That’s not every body living below the poverty line.

Pyne: That is income support which we support. The school kid’s bonus is a cash splash Carbon Tax compensation to be paid in June.

Kelly: But you’re picking and choosing and making up your reasons why aren’t you?

Pyne: No we are not. It is startlingly obvious that the government wanted to give low income families cash, to try and repair the damage they have done to their support base. This is a bribe to low income families and they know it, now they will take the money I’m sure, why wouldn’t they? It will be passed through both houses of parliament. But whether it repairs the Labor Party’s stocks amongst their base is a moot point.

Kelly: Is there another contradiction in the Coalition’s policy then that you will support the other handouts…

Pyne: I don’t call them handouts Fran.

Kelly: Alright the other income support payments… you will support those even though they are funded by the mining tax but you wouldn’t support the corporate tax because it was funded by the mining tax.

Pyne: Well the government has picked and chosen what they said is funded by the mining tax and what is not funded by the mining tax.
(inaudible)

Pyne: It’s shuffling money around and trying to say its doing this and its doing that. But we don’t have to play the Government’s games with this shuffling of money. If the truth is if it shuffles into early years and it shuffles into later years then the changes to this dodgy budget, this “fudget” as some people are calling it, weren’t the case then there would be a $12 billion dollar deficit next year, not a wafer thin $1.5 billion dollar surplus.

Kelly: Its 8:15 on breakfast, our guest in the parliament house studio is Christopher Pyne the Shadow Minister for Education and also the Manager of Opposition business in the House. With that hat on Christopher Pyne, how close was the Coalition yesterday to securing the votes of Rob Oakeshott or Tony Windsor to move against Craig Thompson? Were they inclined to support your motion before Craig Thompson said he’d deliver (inadible)

Pyne: It became very clear yesterday in the Parliament that the Independents were tremendously uncomfortable both on Tuesday, having to back Craig Thomson on the Oppositions motion of suspension, and also yesterday having to back the Government and Craig Thomson on blocking him from making a statement to the Parliament. The incredible thing about yesterday Fran, was that the Government yet again, sided with Craig Thomson against the 77, 000 members of the Health Services Union, and I think the crossbenches are getting thoroughly sick of it. So they have made it quite clear that they were going to support that motion, not publicly, but you could see the Government scrambling to stop that defeat on the floor of the house. And, the very important development that occurred yesterday, that Craig Thomson finally got up on his feet to make a statement to the House saying he’d make a more thorough one when Parliament resumes.

Kelly: Do you welcome that?

Pyne: For eight months we have been asking him to make a statement to the Parliament, so if he ever makes it, I’ll be delighted, but let’s wait and see if he ever does.

Kelly: He says he will make it the week after next when Parliament resumes.

Pyne: He also said he’s up to date with his register, and we know from this morning paper that in fact the New South Wales ALP have been paying his legal fees from September last year, which has not been declared.

Kelly: Wilkie received the Fair Work of Australia Act, 1100 pages, he says now he will make a statement. Is there anything he could say in his defence in a fortnight’s time, or have you already delivered your verdict, that he’s guilty.

Pyne: Well, Fair Work Australia has made findings against the Member for Dobell, they haven’t made allegations, they’ve made 1100 pages of findings, and they are very serious findings, they are findings of corruption and they are findings of him misusing union funds to the tune of almost half a million dollars, so these are very serious allegations, and the Government has continued to back him.

Kelly: Well, the Government says that people have to be presumed innocent until proven guilty.

Pyne: Well, we haven’t formed an opinion, until the Federal Court makes their final decision.

Kelly: Well you have, you want him to leave the Parliament.

Pyne: Clearly, we want the Parliament to be given an explanation as to why we should continue to support the Member for Dobell being amongst our number, which is our right to do so.

Kelly: But he has a right to be amongst your number doesn’t he, because the law says that unless convicted of a crime that carries a penalty of more than 12 months you have the right to be an elected member.

Pyne: There are three precedents of suspensions of Members of Parliament, from the Parliament when their colleagues have decided their behaviour has been so egregious that it disburses us all.

Kelly: Yes, but our system its a slippery slope when colleagues (inaudible) decide they have the right to decide which cases are the ones that deserve suspension. I mean how would you ever draw that line.

Pyne: Well, the Parliament has drawn it three times before, three times in 112 years.

Kelly: For behaviour in the Parliament.

Pyne: We don’t do it for no matter at all, we do it for serious matters.

Kelly: But that was for behaviour in the Parliament, wasn’t it?

Pyne: Fran, with this matter to do with Craig Thomson and his legal fees and his declaration and his registry of interest, this is the second time we have been in this situation, this isn’t the first time. This member doesn’t seem to ever learn his lesson. If he only simply kept to the rules in the register of Members interest, then he wouldn’t be in his situation today.

Kelly: Just finally Christopher Pyne you were a friend and colleague and supporter of Peter Costello when he was Treasurer, would you welcome Peter Costello back to the Federal Parliament.

Pyne: Peter Costello is a good friend of mine, he was a tremendous Treasurer. It’s nice to be reminded of Peter Costello, because it reminds us of the days of surplus budgets, income tax cuts and growing real wages under the Howard Costello Government. I wish he had never left Parliament, but he has left Parliament and I’m absolutely certain he is not coming back.

Kelly: You are absolutely certain; have you spoken to him about that?

Pyne: I speak to Peter Costello on a regular basis, and I can tell you he is not coming back. He is enjoying post political life, there is such a thing Fran if you can believe it, for people like you and I who have around a bit long in this business, but he will not be coming back.

ENDS