ABC Radio Brisbane

CRAIG ZONCA: Actually, speaking of weaponry, millions, if not billions – yeah, add another few zeros to that – of dollars are set to be awarded for Defence contracts this year. And plenty of companies, including here in Queensland, want a piece of that pie, so to speak. Christopher Pyne is the Minister for Defence Industry.

Minister, why are you in Brisbane today?

CHRISTOPHER PYNE: Well, I’m in Brisbane to announce a $100 million ammunition contract for NIOA, which is a Brisbane-based ammunitions manufacturer. It’s really exciting, actually, because we usually get all of our ammunition from overseas. This contract is a $100 million tester, if you like, if you can imagine a contract for $100 million being a test, but it is. And if it succeeds, which we believe it will, and it’s proven that NIOA can provide the 155mm rounds for Howitzers – so these are big things, they stand several feet above the ground, so they’re large – then that will lead to hundreds of millions of dollars of contracts for ammunitions for big guns and Howitzers and cannons for NIOA down the track in Australia, which is great news for Queensland, great news for Australia.

CRAIG ZONCA: And does it equal more jobs?

CHRISTOPHER PYNE: It does. It’s only 22 new jobs to start with but, of course, if it succeeds, which we believe it will, and it will be worth several hundred million dollars down the track, it’s probably closer to hundreds of jobs – 400, 500 sort of jobs.

REBECCA LEVINGSTON: What’s the ammunition going to be used for?

CHRISTOPHER PYNE: Well, it’s used for training, effectively. Obviously we would prefer not to use these Howitzers in war-like situations. They’re basically used for training and, of course, if we do find ourselves in a very unfortunate position where they need to be used in anger, then our Army will be fully equipped, fully trained and able to use them to make sure that we succeed.

REBECCA LEVINGSTON: What’s the $5 billion LAND 400 project, because that’s were you add another three zeros to these sorts of contracts you’re talking about?

CHRISTOPHER PYNE: That’s the thing about Defence Industry, it’s a huge value and it’s very important, it employs lots of people. So the LAND 400 contract is a Combat Reconnaissance Vehicle. It’s 225 vehicles. So each one is very sophisticated and very expensive. So the total is between $4 to $5 billion. There’s currently a tender competition at the moment between a company called Rheinmetall, who make a Boxer, and BAE, who make a different vehicle, and they’re both getting very close to the decision making process. And of course it’s very interesting here in Queensland, because Rheinmetall’s announced that if they win the contract, they’ll do it in Queensland, and BAE have announced that if they win the contract, they’ll do it in Victoria. So, it’s becoming very exciting for both of those two states.

CRAIG ZONCA: Well, it becomes a bit of a State of Origin battle. Can you declare anything, whether Queensland has its nose in front, at all?

CHRISTOPHER PYNE: Look, if I do, the tender process will be obliterated and we’ll have to start all over again, which will be a real disaster for everybody. So no I can’t say anything about it, other than that both the vehicles are very high quality. They’ve been through a very rigorous testing process. The priorities will be the capability of the vehicle and the protection for the soldiers within it. So, our first priority always, in putting any of our soldiers into the frontline, is to make sure that they survive, reduce injuries and if absolutely possible, of course, stop any casualties, any deaths. And then the second priority is the capability of the actual vehicle.

So, they’re both very good. One will win and the whole country will benefit, of course, and the nature of these projects is that they’re not just done in one state. So, if Rheinmetall won, not everything would be done in Queensland, and if BAE wins, not everything will be done in Victoria. They’ll be spread around.

CRAIG ZONCA: Victoria Cross recipient Ben Roberts-Smith, you might have seen him on the front page of the local paper this morning.

CHRISTOPHER PYNE: I know, very- I can see him in the paper right now.

CRAIG ZONCA: And he is saying to you that it is the Queensland bid that should get up. Saying it will give Australian soldiers the best chance of survival on the frontline. It’s not just him saying it either. Team Queensland – 26 of your federal LNP colleagues – have also asked for the contract to be given to Queensland companies. How much, when it comes to a bid like this and a tender like this, is about politics?

CHRISTOPHER PYNE: Well as I said, capability is number one and protection of the individuals is the most important priority. And it’s good for colleagues to lobby, they should. The Victorian MPs have been lobbying me and other members of the Government. The Queenslanders definitely have, team Queensland is very active in Canberra.

CRAIG ZONCA: Because some of them might be worried about the safety of their seats.

CHRISTOPHER PYNE: Everybody wants to win their seat and, of course, if you deliver large Defence contracts to your state, that’s got to be a good thing. We’re currently in the middle of the biggest build up of our military capability in our peacetime history, it’s $200 billion over the next ten years. But the big difference with this big build up, is that we’re trying to do as much of it in Australia as possible, creating sophisticated jobs, advanced manufacturing. So Team Queensland are putting their best foot forward. There’s a lot of people who are experts in Defence, particularly retired people I’ve noticed over the years. But we’ll make a decision, it will be the right decision for Australia and it’ll mean a big contract here in our country, creating jobs and wealth for the nation.

REBECCA LEVINGSTON: You’re listening to Christopher Pyne, the Minister for Defence Industry, in Brisbane today, with good news for one company – a $100 million ammunition contract going to be awarded, another $5 billion LAND 400 project contract up for grabs as well.

Craig Zonca and Rebecca Levingston with you on ABC Radio Brisbane.

Minister, I don’t want to sound naïve or like this kind of the peacekeeping pacifist in all this, but we’re talking about ammunition and big tanks and that kind of thing and at the same time on this show we’re talking about kids going off to school and the next generation. And for me, as a mother, I hate the idea that we are having to build up this kind of supply and this is the kind of world that we live in. But I understand that’s a reality too.

CHRISTOPHER PYNE: Mm.

REBECCA LEVINGSTON: I want to ask you a bigger picture question, because I know you were in India last week.

CHRISTOPHER PYNE: I was.

REBECCA LEVINGSTON: Looking at opportunities there for us to cooperate. But I wonder how Australia’s relationship has changed with America since Donald Trump has been elected, and is that part of the reason why we are building up our own supplies?

CHRISTOPHER PYNE: No. It’s not. In terms of the second part of the question, we’ve been planning a big military build up for some time, and Malcolm Turnbull, as Prime Minister, I notice is also in Brisbane today, chose to have a Defence Industry Minister specifically because of the big build up, to focus on that particular part of the portfolio. So it’s got nothing to do with the change of administration in Washington.

Our relationship with the United States is very, very strong. It’s strong regardless of whoever is in the White House, and since Donald Trump has been elected President, it continues to be very strong. We probably have the most interoperable defence force of any in the world with the United States. We’ve sourced 60 per cent of our big platforms and equipment from the United States traditionally, which in the years ahead, we obviously want to reduce that because we’re going to be doing it here in Australia. And the Government is working well with the Trump administration. Particularly, my counterpart is Jim Mattis – he’s the Secretary of Defence; Rex Tillerson is the Secretary of State, so foreign affairs minister, if you like. He’s working closely with Julie Bishop. The relationship is so multilayered that it does just continue to beat a path through the choppy waters of the world at the moment, and we should be pleased about that.

In terms of the first part of your point, Rebecca, the truth is we don’t want to ever have to use this equipment, this ammunition. We don’t want to put our soldiers and our airmen and women and sailors into danger, but the reality is we’ve just had a 15-year engagement in Afghanistan. We are in Iraq and Syria right now, and we are one of those countries that takes our role in supporting the rules-based international order seriously, and you have to be able to back that up, and we do it very effectively. We have a very good Defence Force, but you have to invest in it. And what the Turnbull Government’s trying to do is, in investing in it, also promote our economic strength here in Australia, and that’s part of the- well, that’s the major part of what I do every day

REBECCA LEVINGSTON: I wonder, then, in terms of the roundtable in New Delhi, while you were there, what opportunities did you see with India and Australia, and is that the sort of conversation that you’d also like to be having with China?

CHRISTOPHER PYNE: Well, China is a different prospect, because it’s not part of the fora that countries like India, Japan, the United States, obviously Canada, New Zealand, Great Britain, France are part of that support this rules-based international order as the basis for our entire prosperity and essentially world peace since the Second World War. So we obviously have a very close relationship with China, particularly economically. In terms of defence and foreign affairs, I think our relationship with India has been underdone. We currently have Peter Varghese, who’s actually a Queenslander, lives in Queensland now, who’s doing a big study on the relationship between India and Australia. I think you’ll see a lot more Australian Ministers travelling to New Delhi. It’s just across the Indian Ocean, and of course, the Indian Ocean is a significant strategic part of the world in which we live, and we haven’t really focused on it as much as we perhaps should have. So the relationship with India is going to be very important now and into the future.

CRAIG ZONCA: And on that point, because something must have worked with your conversations, because Indian press is reporting that India has now dropped its objection to Australia participating in the Malabar naval exercises this year. Can you confirm if that’s true?

CHRISTOPHER PYNE: Well, I did have discussions with the Indians about the Malabar exercises, but I haven’t caught up with that particular piece of news, so it would be unwise of me to comment on it until I get the detail.

CRAIG ZONCA: But they had said no up until that point, is that correct?

CHRISTOPHER PYNE: Well, there was discussions. There was continuing, ongoing discussions. No one ever says no in foreign policy.

CRAIG ZONCA: It is a quarter to nine on ABC Radio Brisbane. The Minister for Defence Industry, Christopher Pyne, our guest this morning.

Peter Dutton – to some other news now that’s also going around today – Peter Dutton says the number of people smuggling boats trying to reach Australia increased after New Zealand’s new Prime Minister renewed her country’s offer to resettle refugees on Manus Island. Do you believe that that renewed offer has been a pull factor for people smugglers?

CHRISTOPHER PYNE: Look, there is no doubt that the people smugglers would be looking for a chink in our armour when it comes to reopening the market to Australia. John Howard stopped it, and the Abbott and Turnbull governments have stopped it. Nobody wants to return to 50,000 unauthorised arrivals on 800 boats and people dying at sea because they’re trying to get here in rickety old fishing vessels. So we have to make sure that stays stopped, and there’s no doubt that New Zealand making that offer, if it was to have been taken up, would have sent a signal to people smugglers that, if they could get to Manus Island or Nauru, then eventually maybe to New Zealand, then they see that very much as being part of Australia. Of course, it’s not part of Australia, but in their world, New Zealand is a stepping stone to Australia. So it’s critically important that we maintain a united front, and the Government has. My opposition hasn’t, but the Government certainly has and I think the people do too.

REBECCA LEVINGSTON: Just on that, Christopher Pyne, yesterday we had former foreign correspondent Peter Greste in the studio …

CHRISTOPHER PYNE: Oh yes.

REBECCA LEVINGSTON: …who has plenty to say about the world and the conflicts in the world. He’s on the record saying that he sees nationalism and xenophobia as a greater threat than terrorism. Would you agree?

CHRISTOPHER PYNE: Well, nationalism can be a very positive emotion. Xenophobia, of course, is not something that we would support. We find that it’s an unattractive character trait. But terrorism is an existential threat to people’s lives. It’s an existential threat to our way of life, and terrorism has to be defeated. And we’re obviously putting a great deal of effort - all the Western nations of the world are putting a tremendous effort into stopping extremist Islamic terrorism, otherwise we wouldn’t be doing what we’re doing, for example, in Syria and Iraq to defeat ISIS. So I wouldn’t agree with him about that, but it’s a free country, fortunately, because of what we all do, so he’s entitled to his opinion.

REBECCA LEVINGSTON: Alright Minister, I know we’ve got to let you go because you’ve got to head off to make the formal announcement today for that $100 million ammunitions contract. Just back to the LAND 400 project, when will a decision be made on that $5 billion contract?

CHRISTOPHER PYNE: Well, very soon. We’re getting to the pointy end of the decision-making process; so all the testing of the two vehicles has been going on for the last 12 months. That means that Defence goes back to the two providers and talks to them about bits of the parts of their vehicles; talks about value for money, of course, so we have to negotiate price. In the next couple of months, we’ll make a final decision, and then somebody will be very happy and somebody will be less happy, and then away we’ll go.

REBECCA LEVINGSTON: And hopefully it’s never used.

CHRISTOPHER PYNE: Exactly. Well, the combat reconnaissance vehicles will hopefully never be used in conflict. They’ll be used a great deal, of course, in training and support, and they’re really amazing vehicles. I fired them, actually, at Puckapunyal, when we were doing the testing. It’s quite exciting.

REBECCA LEVINGSTON: One of the benefits of being the Defence Industry Minister. Christopher Pyne, we really appreciate your time this morning. I was going to ask you- because you are on the record as saying you’re a fixer for a fix for cyber bullying. I don’t know if you have a short and sharp answer on that, but I’d say to you a message that often comes through from us as the year rolls on and Parliament gets up: be nice to each other. Be respectful and be solution-orientated this year in Parliament, and I reckon the whole country will be a lot happier. Thanks so much for your time.

CHRISTOPHER PYNE: Yeah, I think 2018 needs to be a calm year of delivery.

REBECCA LEVINGSTON: That’d be nice.

CHRISTOPHER PYNE: Absolutely.

CRAIG ZONCA: Christopher Pyne, the Minister for Defence Industry.