ABC News Radio

SUBJECTS: Status of Migration Act in Parliament; Malaysia Solution; Labor Leadership

E&OE…

Marius Benson: Christopher Pyne, good morning. 

Christopher Pyne: Good Morning Marius.

Benson: Let me just ask you about the position of the legislation the Government is proposing on asylum seekers.  The latest news is that it’s likely to be defeated in the House of Representatives with the independents joining the Government.  Will that give you pause for thought?  Will you reconsider your decision to block the Government’s proposals when it comes to the Senate where you are joined by the Greens and you’ll have the numbers? 

Pyne: Well, Marius, we believe that the Malaysian people swap deal is a very bad policy for everyone concerned and particularly for the Australian taxpayer and the Australian people.  So we will not be supporting the Malaysian people swap deal.  The Government right now could begin offshore processing at Nauru, they could bring back temporary protection visas and they could turn back the boats where that is safe to do. 

Benson: Let me pick you up on that because the criticism this week is that this has been an empty exercise in politics, politics triumphing over policy.  Both you and the Government want offshore detention.  You say Nauru and Manus or not at all: the Government says Malaysia.  It’s just partisan politics, I presume if I put that to you, you’ll just blame the other side. 

Pyne: Well, it’s not, Marius.  That’s the point.  The Howard Government had a successful policy and for ten years the Coalition has had the same policy.  That can’t be said for the Government.  They changed the Government’s policies in August 2008 against the advice of their Government Departments.  They’ve seen a spike in unauthorised arrivals and they’re now having to deal with that problem and we are being helpful to them. 

Benson: When you say they’re actually against the advice of their experts; when you say that you’re ignoring the advice of experts now that Julia Gillard is citing, the experts that are saying Nauru worked in the past, it won’t work now, Manus Island has worked in the past, it won’t work now – TPVs won’t work now.  Why are you ignoring expert advice when you are criticising the Government for doing the same thing? 

Pyne: Well, Marius, there is no advice that says temporary protection visas won’t work, there’s no advice that says turning back the boats where it’s safe to do so won’t work, there’s….

Benson: The advice is that Indonesia won’t cop that anymore.  There is advice that Indonesia won’t accept turning back the boats now. 

Pyne: No, that’s not right I’m afraid.  Indonesia has been treated very badly by this Government since they came to power, as is now Malaysia being treated badly by this Government.  The Government has trashed our relationship with Indonesia over a long period of time.  The live cattle exports has been the latest example, and I think an Abbott Government would have very little difficulty in working in a much more constructive role with an Indonesian Government than this Government has. 

Benson: Ok, that debate is now stalled in parliament, at least for a couple of weeks. Parliament is out for a couple of weeks and then it will be debated again. If it is lost it will be the first bit of substantial legislation lost by the government. They say that’s 195 to 1, a pretty good batting average.

Pyne: Well not really, Marius, because in the 195 that they’re counting, there are hardly any pieces of significant legislation. The Budget would be the most significant, and that is many, many pieces of legislation and obviously oppositions don’t block budgets any more. This is the most significant piece of legislation that the parliament has had to consider since the government came to power at the end of last year. If they cannot get it through the lower house it is effectively saying that they have lost the confidence of the parliament.

Benson: There are more headlines today, not so much on asylum seekers and boats but on Kevin Rudd, suggestions that he is becoming active in pursuing the Labor leadership again. You’d be enjoying that sort of speculation.

Pyne: Well there’s no doubt that Kevin Rudd and his supporters are deeply aggrieved that he was removed in mid last year by a new Prime Minister, Julia Gillard, who promised never to challenge him and never to replace him. There’s no doubt at all that since that time, Kevin Rudd’s supporters have been manoeuvring for his return. Unfortunately, it all just adds to what is a hopelessly dysfunctional government, and I think that the public deserve a lot better.

Benson:  Do you share Malcolm Turnbull’s view that Labor did itself a lot of harm getting rid of Kevin Rudd?

Pyne:  Well there’s no doubt that the Australian people themselves wanted to vote Kevin Rudd out of office when the election was held last year. They didn’t want the Labor party factional leaders to do so, and if Labor changes leader again it will simply be New South Wales politics come to Canberra, where the factional bovver boys are yet again swinging the axe.

Benson:  The latest speculation about Kevin Rudd has been sparked by a Coalition source, Nigel Scullion, the Country Liberal Party Senator from the Northern Territory. Is this just mischief making on the part of the Coalition, or can you point to substantial evidence that there are movements for Kevin Rudd to return?

Pyne: Look Marius, I’ll put it this way: you don’t have to hang around the water cooler in Parliament House very long to find a Labor MP who’s prepared to tell you how absolutely hopeless Julia Gillard is and how desperate they are to change leader. Now whether the story came out through Trish Crossin and Nigel Scullion or myriad other stories, I as a long serving member know members across the other side of the chamber and I can tell you, you don’t have to wait long to hear a bad story about Julia Gillard and this government from another Labor member.

Benson: So who do you think you’ll be facing as prime minister at the next election?

Pyne:  That is a matter for the government and I think it’s a very fluid situation. The most important thing is, Marius, that the Australian public aren’t getting a good government while this government is so mired in disunity and division and internal discord.

Benson:  Christopher Pyne, thanks very much for talking with us this Friday morning.

Pyne:  That’s always a pleasure.

ENDS