ABC News 24

E&OE TRANSCRIPT
Interview - ABC News 24 Breakfast with Virginia Trioli
Tuesday 8 December 2015

SUBJECTS: National Science and Innovation Agenda;

Virginia Trioli: Now Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull made his first major economic announcement yesterday with the unveiling of his billion dollar innovation package. The Minister who has to put the promises into action is the Innovation and Science Minister Christopher Pyne; he joins me now from Canberra.

Minister, good morning.

Christopher Pyne: Good morning Virginia.

Virginia Trioli: Now when you took on this job you said that you warned the Prime Minister if he wanted a revolution that would cost some money. So has enough money been provided to kick Australia into an innovation boom?

Christopher Pyne: Well there's no doubt that the innovation and science agenda we released yesterday, which is $1.1 billion of new spending, will make a dramatic difference to changing the culture in Australia around enabling risk, commercialising research, raising capital. It will help with science, technology, engineering and maths skills, bringing entrepreneurs to Australia, and the Government has an exemplar using its procurement dollar and the work it does to transform innovation and science across the economy.

Virginia Trioli: As Minister, what’s your benchmark though? Is there a number of start-ups or a quantum of money that you think- investment money that you want to see in the certain time period in order to see success - do you have a benchmark in mind?

Christopher Pyne: Well Virginia the benchmark is jobs and growth. So we need to of course have the mining industry continue to develop. We'll always have agriculture, education services, financial services, tourism; but the benchmark is jobs for Australians and growth in the economy. And I'm very confident that the investment that we're making that will be partnered with the private sector and unleash some of the entrepreneurial spirit of Australians will lead to jobs and growth. That's why it's such a great announcement.

Virginia Trioli: But do you have a benchmark that's a bit more precise than that?

Christopher Pyne: That is precise. Jobs and growth is what the Australian people want the Government to be providing or incentivising, and that's what we're doing. Of course there's no mathematical benchmark. It would be quite impossible to develop one. We are creating a metric about research impact of course.

Virginia Trioli: Well, but that’s- that’s ….’

Christopher Pyne: But it's not exactly an impact metric for the whole package, no.

Virginia Trioli: Well I don't know about that. I mean, I think actually those who work in those fields might say that you could develop an impact metric and in fact they're the kind of fields where you would expect to see one. So in order to justify a massive spending at a time when a government has a bit of a budget problem on its hands, don’t you as minister, wouldn't you want to be more precise in terms of the number of start-ups, the amount of private investment that you see over a certain time period, and the bang for the buck you're going to get from the Australian taxpayer?

Christopher Pyne: Well Virginia, let me give you an example. There were between 3500 and 4500 businesses last year that couldn't access capital from traditional lenders. Now, because of the changes that we've made in the package yesterday, we believe they'll be able to access venture capital support from early start-up venture capital limited partnerships because of some of the changes around the Tax Act that will support people investing not just in property and stocks and shares, but investing in other businesses that create job and growth.

Virginia Trioli: The great challenge of course for Australia has always been for the idea for example of university industry collaboration and turning really good research into something that can be commercialized, is whether the local industries actually exist in Australia to collaborate with those ideas. Do they in your view?

Christopher Pyne: Oh absolutely they do. I mean the- we already have industry and university collaboration, but we are the worst in the OECD. The quality of our research is one of the highest in the OECD; the commercialisation of it is the lowest. So in this package we have for example the CSIRO Innovation Fund that we've established, $200 million. $250 million for a biomedical translation fund to turn health research into commercial outcomes, and of course we will be changing the way we measure the impact between research, researchers and industry through incentivising that collaboration in our grants - Australian Research Council Grants scheme.

Virginia Trioli: Do you think there are particular fields of endeavour that Australia should be concentrating on above others?

Christopher Pyne: Well we are investing yesterday in quantum computing, for example, at the University of New South Wales, where we are winning the world quantum computing race. We need to make sure we win it because it could mean billions and billions of dollars for the Australian economy. We are announcing a cybersecurity industry growth centre yesterday, because cybersecurity, Australia is at the forefront of research and development in cybersecurity. So we are very much at the forefront internationally in many areas; transport is another one, agriculture, water, food - these are areas where Australia has a very strong record and very strong potential, and that's why we're investing in them.

Virginia Trioli: And as Minister who’s in charge of this very large pot of taxpayer money, do you also believe there are areas that perhaps now need to be left almost entirely to the private sector, where you don't need to put more public money but the private sector needs to spud in if you like and take on the super investing in those fields? Are there particular fields you can see that have now matured to that level?

Christopher Pyne: Well we always want the private sector investment in venture capital and in start-ups and small and medium sized enterprises, and that's been the history of Australia, things like Seek and Atlassian. These were major enterprises, now major enterprises, started as start-ups with private funds. In fact I think Atlassian started with two credit cards of the two founders. So private money is always the best money; the taxpayer support is about changing the structure, creating a structure that encourages that kind of business activity that leads to jobs and growth.

Virginia Trioli: One criticism that seems to have been made so far is- or at least suggestion is that the business tax rate should go lower in this circumstance, particularly for those businesses. I know it's been reduced for small businesses but more generally, that rate should go lower. Do you agree?

Christopher Pyne: Well business would always prefer to pay less tax. And individuals will …

Virginia Trioli: Well let’s accept that everyone would, but do you think there's a particular case for business to have a focus on cutting?

Christopher Pyne: Well we've announced the package yesterday; it doesn't include a company tax rate. We recently had a small company tax rate cut, and we've announced the package, it's been heralded by the third parties in the sector to great universal acclaim. Now it doesn't have a company tax rate cut, but it does have $1.1 billion of investment by the Australian taxpayer in supercharging innovation and science in the economy. It is a great announcement.

Virginia Trioli: Mr Pyne, just before we move on and finish the interview, just a couple of quick questions on other matters. In the Peter Slipper Mal Brough matter, the AFP of course has searched former staffer James Ashby’s premises looking for correspondence, that – in at least in one case might involve will you. Will they fine any?

Christopher Pyne: No.

Virginia Trioli: Are you sure that you offered no inducements to James Ashby in attempting to bring down Peter Slipper?

Christopher Pyne: None.

Virginia Trioli: None at all?

Christopher Pyne: None.

Virginia Trioli: The first suggestion by James Ashby was that you did, was that there was an offer of a job - was he mistaken in that claim?

Christopher Pyne: Virginia, we have canvassed these issues for three and a half years, and I’m not going …

Virginia Trioli: And it just doesn't go away, does it?

Christopher Pyne: Well I'm not going to go into them anymore. I’ve been uphill and down dale and inside and outside and upside down over these issues with the media and my involvement with this issue is very well known.

Virginia Trioli: Well the AFP clearly isn't done with it.

Christopher Pyne: That's not a matter for me.

Virginia Trioli: Is the Prime Minister in danger of turning his support for Mal Brough into his own Bronwyn Bishop moment do you think?

Christopher Pyne: Virginia, I am positive and upbeat and optimistic about the innovation statement that we released yesterday and I'm not going to get bogged down with this very old news.

Virginia Trioli: Minister, next thing you were telling me is that you're nimble and agile. I mean, I don't know what I'll do with that.

Christopher Pyne: Well you know that I am. You know that I'm nimble and agile already.

Virginia Trioli: Yeah, we all are. Look, just finally on …

Christopher Pyne: Getting old but still nimble.

Virginia Trioli: Finally on the matter of Ian Macfarlane; do you think he will make a success if he's moved to the Nationals?

Christopher Pyne: Well that matter is not resolved yet. It's an internal Liberal National Party matter in Queensland and they are handling it as an internal matter, as they should.

Virginia Trioli: Yes, but doesn't he have a formal contract or connection if you like with your party that needs to be observed and honoured?

Christopher Pyne: Well that’ll be a matter for the LNP to determine in the coming days or maybe weeks.

Virginia Trioli: What's your view?

Christopher Pyne: I’m a Liberal Party …

Virginia Trioli: Given that I'm talking to you this morning.

Christopher Pyne: I'm a Liberal Party member from South Australia, we don't have any of these issues in our- in my great state.

Virginia Trioli: Nice to talk to you this morning Minister, thanks so much.

Christopher Pyne: Thanks Virginia.

Virginia Trioli: Nice to see the agility remains in place. And Christopher Pyne will address the National Press Club on that issue of innovation, that’s live today of course on ABC TV from 12:30.

[Ends]