ABC 891

E&OE TRANSCRIPT 891 ABC Adelaide 2 May, 2014 SUBJECT: Commission of Audit MATTHEW ABRAHAM: Now that's Spence Denny's VoxBox this morning. Listening to that is Christopher Pyne, Education Minister. Welcome to the program Christopher Pyne. CHRISTOPHER PYNE: Good morning Matthew. Good morning David. MATTHEW ABRAHAM: Do you accept that you would not have won the election. You'd still be in Opposition, you'd still be an Opposition front bencher if the public had had a whiff of this sort of agenda before the election? CHRISTOPHER PYNE: No not at all. The first thing is that the Audit Commission Report is a report to the Government. It's not a report of the Government. It's made eighty-six recommendations. Some of those recommendations will be accepted in whole or in part, some will not. In the budget on 13 May we'll all get to see how the Government has responded to the Audit Commission. Obviously... DAVID BEVAN: Well we're getting a lot of texts from people saying look this is just a game. They're trying to scare you and then they'll look more generous later on down the track. Are you just playing with us? CHRISTOPHER PYNE: [Laughs] Absolutely not, but I do think in the election last year in September the Australian public voted for the Coalition because they wanted an adult government to fix the budget mess that Labor had created after six years. When Labor came to power in 2007 there was no debt. There was no deficit. There was money in the bank. Six years later there was one-hundred-and-twenty-three billion dollars of deficits. There was debt rising to six-hundred-... MATTHEW ABRAHAM: Chris... CHRISTOPHER PYNE: ...and sixty-seven billion dollars... MATTHEW ABRAHAM: Chris Pyne the deficit has doubled since you came to office. CHRISTOPHER PYNE: That's what Labor says... MATTHEW ABRAHAM: No it's not, no it's not. CHRISTOPHER PYNE: You can't believe what Labor says. MATTHEW ABRAHAM: No it's not. It's what Peter Fray who edits the Australian's fact check says. The Coalition doubled the deficit in the first few months of coming to power. CHRISTOPHER PYNE: Well I think his fact check is a... MATTHEW ABRAHAM: This is a common... CHRISTOPHER PYNE: ...very sceptical... MATTHEW ABRAHAM: Hang on a minute can I just - I'll just read this out to you. CHRISTOPHER PYNE: Sure. MATTHEW ABRAHAM: You can explain it to us. CHRISTOPHER PYNE: Well you interrupt me all the time. So I'm sorry to interrupt you because... MATTHEW ABRAHAM: Fair cop, fair cop, yes fair cop. Don't make that a habit though. CHRISTOPHER PYNE: [Laughs]. MATTHEW ABRAHAM: Peter Fray with The Australian he's fact checking this claim by Labor that the Coalition doubled the deficit in the first few months of power. He says this is a common Labor charge and there is evidence to back it up between Labor's pre-election economic forecast and Mr Hockey's mid-year economic forecast. The accumulative deficits from 2013/14 to 2016/17 rose by sixty-eight billion dollars from fifty-five billion to one-hundred-and-twenty-three billion. So the one-hundred-and-twenty-three billion isn't what Labor left us, it's what you've left us. CHRISTOPHER PYNE: I think what you'll find Matthew is that what we're doing is honestly reporting the deficit that Labor left. So Labor and their figures that they released before the - before the election, were incredibly rubbery. And what we've done since we got elected is honestly gone through the books and reported what the true state of the books are and that is the figure that we have come up with. And I think most people would say well at least the Government is telling us the truth now about how bad the situation is. I think in terms of your first question was would we have won if people had known that things were going to be tough, I think people knew exactly what they were voting for last September and they knew that if the Coalition got elected we would keep our commitment to fix the budget bottom line to return to surplus and to start trying to grow the economy... MATTHEW ABRAHAM: Okay. CHRISTOPHER PYNE: ...on a genuine basis rather than borrowing money from overseas to pump prime the economy on spending ideas that Labor should not have been spending money on. MATTHEW ABRAHAM: Let's go to Caroline from Elizabeth. She wants to speak directly to Christopher Pyne. Good morning Caroline. CALLER CAROLINE: Yes good morning gentlemen. My question while prompted by the report yesterday was one I've been wanting to ask for a few weeks was: the fee talk of a co-payment for doctor's visits is this going to really starting wiping out the older generation? Many have to visit the doctor twice a week. This is not over-servicing; this is because the way things work they have to have their doctor's permission to get blood tests and things like that. People like diabetics often have to go several times a week, people on Warfarin often have to go; which means at the beginning of the year when you're trying to save up for your electricity to keep cool you have the highest expenses medically. MATTHEW ABRAHAM: Christopher Pyne, how are poor people going to go to the doctor? CHRISTOPHER PYNE: Well the Audit Commission has recommended a co-payment for doctor's visits. The Government hasn't announced a co-payment for doctor's visits. That will be - you'll have to wait to see the budget to see how we're going to respond to the Audit Commission. But I would say that obviously pensioners and those on fixed incomes need a great deal more support from government in terms of their medical costs than those who are not on pensions. That is a given and the Coalition has no intention of slugging pensioners for medical visits in the way that you would expect non-pensioners to be paying some value for the doctor's visits they attend. But I will also say that when you go and see a doctor which is one of the most expensive servicing parts of the economy, it is extraordinary to think that it would cost you nothing to do so when it's costing the taxpayer a dramatic amount of money and all the Audit Commission is saying, is that people need to make some contribution to that. The Medicare Levy covers about ten per cent of the cost of health in Australia. And sure we would love to be able to keep spending money, borrowing money from overseas, taxing people to the hilt forever like Labor was doing it without ever the chickens coming home to roost. But that's not the real world and we were elected last year to fix the problems that Labor was creating. They'll never tell you the truth about the economy or the budget. We are telling people the truth. MATTHEW ABRAHAM: Well can we look at some South Australian specific recommendations from the Audit Commission. Do you support lowering the minimum wage in South Australia so we have a lower minimum wage than the rest of the nation? CHRISTOPHER PYNE: Well, I doubt very much that that recommendation of the Audit Commission will ever be adopted but... [DAVID BEVAN]: So is that a no you don't support it? CHRISTOPHER PYNE: Well I'm not going to say whether I support certain things or not certain things that's... MATTHEW ABRAHAM: Come on Christopher Pyne. CHRISTOPHER PYNE: I'm not going to say... MATTHEW ABRAHAM: Christopher Pyne you are the most senior Liberal in this state. CHRISTOPHER PYNE: But hang on you can't put... MATTHEW ABRAHAM: You represent the people of Sturt but more than that you represent South Australia when you're standing in parliament. CHRISTOPHER PYNE: There are eight-six - look... MATTHEW ABRAHAM: Now it's not unreasonable to ask you do you support a lower minimum wage here in South Australia? CHRISTOPHER PYNE: There are eighty-six recommendations in the Audit Commission Report and I'm not going to rule in or rule out one after the other. I'm not... MATTHEW ABRAHAM: Well that's a pretty big one. CHRISTOPHER PYNE: I am not going to play that game. That would be a foolish thing for me to do. But I can tell you... MATTHEW ABRAHAM: So you're happy for people to be scared... CHRISTOPHER PYNE: No I said to you that I doubt very much that that recommendation... MATTHEW ABRAHAM: Alright. CHRISTOPHER PYNE: ...would be adopted. MATTHEW ABRAHAM: What about... CHRISTOPHER PYNE: But I will say this... MATTHEW ABRAHAM: Okay. CHRISTOPHER PYNE: The changing in the early 1970s when the Dunstan Government insisted that South Australian workers be paid exactly the same as everybody from the eastern states it removed our competitive advantage and our manufacturing started moving to the eastern states. So... MATTHEW ABRAHAM: So there is some merit - there is some merit to pay less in South Australia? CHRISTOPHER PYNE: No, the point I'm making is I can see why the Audit Commission would make that recommendation because it would give a competitive advantage to South Australia to manufacture again. We wouldn't lose things like our whitegoods industry which we lost when the Dunstan Government made that decision. I'm not saying we should do that and I doubt very much it will happen but the Audit Commission is going back to what we did in the 1970s... MATTHEW ABRAHAM: You like the idea but... CHRISTOPHER PYNE: ...and recognising - no I didn't say that so don't put words in my mouth. I'm saying... MATTHEW ABRAHAM: Well you sort of - well what are you saying? CHRISTOPHER PYNE: No... MATTHEW ABRAHAM: Well what are you saying? CHRISTOPHER PYNE: If I could get a word out - I am saying that I can understand why they would make that recommendation but I don't believe it will be adopted. MATTHEW ABRAHAM: No. You sort of like the idea but you know that it will be political disaster for you. CHRISTOPHER PYNE: No I didn't say that. MATTHEW ABRAHAM: I'm just trying to help you here clarify your thought. CHRISTOPHER PYNE: [Laughs] That's not what I said and I don't say that. [DAVID BEVAN]: Okay will you ever support allocating the GST on a per capita basis? CHRISTOPHER PYNE: No. MATTHEW ABRAHAM: Well you ruled that one out. DAVID BEVAN: You ruled that one out. MATTHEW ABRAHAM: That was quick. CHRISTOPHER PYNE: Well because the GST - the allocation of the GST is decided by the Grants Commission in the states and territories. It's not something that the Commonwealth decides. [DAVID BEVAN]: Okay so you'll fight that one. If that one comes up in Cabinet you won't let that one get through? CHRISTOPHER PYNE: There's no possibility that that will ever happen. DAVID BEVAN: Oh, Okay. MATTHEW ABRAHAM: Okay. What about making uni students pay back their HECS when they reach the minimum wage? CHRISTOPHER PYNE: See here we are with this ridiculous [games you are now playing]. MATTHEW ABRAHAM: Well you're the Education Minister. DAVID BEVAN: Come on you're the Education Minister. CHRISTOPHER PYNE: Well this is going to - I'm happy if you want to go through each recommendation... MATTHEW ABRAHAM: Okay, yes, no, no... CHRISTOPHER PYNE: Let's get going. Number three... MATTHEW ABRAHAM: Yes. CHRISTOPHER PYNE: ...university students - I certainly think that university students get a tremendous advantage from going to university and they only pay when they have future income. So they don't pay upfront of course. They take a loan from the taxpayer and they pay back forty per cent of their cost of being educated and they get an enormous benefit. I think that that is too low. MATTHEW ABRAHAM: Well wasn't the justification for HECS that graduates earn a lot more than the average person so... CHRISTOPHER PYNE: Correct. MATTHEW ABRAHAM: Well it would be a bit rough though to make them pay it back when they're on the minimum wage. CHRISTOPHER PYNE: But that's the recommendation of the Audit Commission and of course that doesn't mean that Government... MATTHEW ABRAHAM: That's why I'm asking you. CHRISTOPHER PYNE: But the Government doesn't have to accept these recommendations but I... MATTHEW ABRAHAM: Well I'm asking you do you accept it? You're the Education Minister. CHRISTOPHER PYNE: And I'm telling you... MATTHEW ABRAHAM: Do you accept that it's a bit... CHRISTOPHER PYNE: I'm not going to go through... MATTHEW ABRAHAM: ...strange... CHRISTOPHER PYNE: ...eighty-six recommendations... MATTHEW ABRAHAM: ...to ask graduates... CHRISTOPHER PYNE: ...and tell you which ones I support... MATTHEW ABRAHAM: ...to pay back their HECS debt... CHRISTOPHER PYNE: ...and which ones that I don't. MATTHEW ABRAHAM: ...when they reach the minimum wage? CHRISTOPHER PYNE: Look I am not going to rule in or rule out eighty-six recommendations here. In terms of the general question, do I think students get a good deal under the extraordinarily generous loan program that we have, the answer is: yes. Do they get a better long term life income and low unemployment rates in the general community, yes they do. They currently pay about forty per cent of the costs of their education. Later on in life when they earn over fifty-thousand dollars a year, I think that is quite reasonable, but I don't see why they should be - there's no reason for students to complain if they are asked to contribute more when everybody is being asked to contribute more to pay back Labor's debt and deficit and the mess they're created. MATTHEW ABRAHAM: Okay. CHRISTOPHER PYNE: Am I ruling in dropping down the threshold to the minimum wage, no I'm not ruling that in and I'm not going to... DAVID BEVAN: And you're not ruling it out? CHRISTOPHER PYNE: Well I'm not going to play that game of ruling things in and out. You'll see all of that in... MATTHEW ABRAHAM: Alright. CHRISTOPHER PYNE: ...the Budget in 10 days' time. MATTHEW ABRAHAM: Except for the GST that's out? CHRISTOPHER PYNE: Let's move onto number four. DAVID BEVAN: No we will in a minute, but it's twelve degrees... CHRISTOPHER PYNE: No come on, [unclear 0:10:59:0]... DAVID BEVAN: We will, don't worry, we've got our list. It's twelve degrees... CHRISTOPHER PYNE: Yeah, no, that's alright I've got time. DAVID BEVAN: It's twelve degrees, fifteen's the forecast top. You're on 891 ABC Adelaide Breakfast. You're listening to Matthew and David and Christopher Pyne, Federal Education Minister, talking about the Audit Commission Report. Rob from Yankalilla at twenty-six past seven. Hello Rob? CALLER ROB: How are we doing? DAVID BEVAN: Very well how are you Rob? CALLER ROB: I'll try to keep my language as clean as I can. I'm stressed to the max thanks to the way the system works. Now I've been in a nasty accident two and a half years ago. I can't work due to the medication and the pain I'm on. I can't get disability pension due to the new changes which means I've got to live on Newstart which means I'm losing my house on 4 June, which means I'll have nowhere to live. Now I can't get help from Housing SA because apparently I'm going to be earning too little to be able to get help for the bond and the first couple of weeks' rent, but your bloody government, your Abbott, wants to support women over eighty-thousand get given seventy-five-thousand dollars for a baby bonus. I'll be living in my car which means I will lose Centrelink because I won't have a fixed abode and I'll never be able to get to see my kids again and you are pushing me to the point of the only option I have got is either to kill myself or kill someone else and put myself in gaol so I've got some breakfast. Can you explain why the Abbott Government wants to push us poor people in this position? MATTHEW ABRAHAM: Christopher Pyne? CHRISTOPHER PYNE: Well I would say that Rob needs to visit one of the very useful charities that is down in his direction and talk to them about the emergency payments that are available to people in his position for bonds and for furniture, for clothing et cetera, to help him get back on track. If he can't access those charities in his area, then I think he said he was from Mt Compass or [unclear 0:13:02.1] MATTHEW ABRAHAM: [Interrupts] And we'll ask him to hold on if you don't mind Rob and we'll try and get some numbers for you. CHRISTOPHER PYNE: Jamie Briggs will be able to point him in a direction... MATTHEW ABRAHAM: Alright. CHRISTOPHER PYNE: ...if he needs to access state help because [unclear 0:13:12.8] DAVID BEVAN: [Interrupts] His general point is this - but you know his general point? CHRISTOPHER PYNE: Yeah and... DAVID BEVAN: And that is he's looking at such dire straits and yet... CHRISTOPHER PYNE: That's right. DAVID BEVAN: ...he says rich women will get maternity leave at seventy-five-thousand dollars a year even if you're on eighty-thousand. CHRISTOPHER PYNE: Well the point is that Rob needs to get the support that he needs to be able to... DAVID BEVAN: I know... CHRISTOPHER PYNE: ...live a decent life. DAVID BEVAN: ...but his - true. His general point is this. He can't see - he can't see how we can afford Paid Parental Leave scheme, which some see including people in your own ranks we're told, as very generous. CHRISTOPHER PYNE: The Paid Parental Leave scheme is not a welfare entitlement, it is a workforce participation benefit. So people who are in the workforce, women in the workforce who then leave the workforce to have a child, should be supported under a Paid Parental Leave scheme in order to boost productivity, boost participation and increase the population. I strongly support that, I think most people do. That is a different issue to Rob needing the - to access the support he needs in order to not face the choices that he says that he's facing this morning which is obviously extremely important for all governments to look after people like Rob. MATTHEW ABRAHAM: Christopher Pyne can you - can you see the sort of pain that is caused to people like Rob and there would be many people listening right now, and all they hear and all they see are the terrible headlines. And already stressed people who might not be coping, this sort of thing adds to their stress and the game-playing that goes on as the government carries on its spin. I mean this is all part of an agenda to take us to a certain place. Now it might be a place that you genuinely think we should be taken to, but you're not going to accept all of these recommendations. In the meantime, genuine people will be severely stressed and eventually it will be resolved, but only at great cost to them as individuals. Do you see the personal cost here? CHRISTOPHER PYNE: Well I don't accept your assertion that this is a game-playing by the government. What I would say though is that if the government that was elected last year to do this job doesn't make the Budget sustainable, there won't be in the future the capacity of the Australian Government to do the welfare, the health, the education, that will help people like Rob. The reason why the government is sitting down and doing - making the Budget sustainable is not because we want a beautiful set of figures. It's because - as Paul Keating once said, it's because we want to make the economy grow, create the jobs that are necessary and have the resources available at the federal level to support people like Rob who need support from the government when times are tough. [DAVID BEVAN]: Chris Pyne thank you for talking to us this morning. CHRISTOPHER PYNE: It's a pleasure.