ABC 891

E&OE TRANSCRIPT ABC 891 Date 26 February 2014 Subjects: Comments by Senator Conroy, Aged Pension COMPERE: Christopher Pyne, Liberal MP for Sturt, he’s the Education Minister in the Abbott Government. Christopher Pyne good morning to you. CHRISTOPHER PYNE: Good morning Matthew, good morning David, good morning Mark. COMPERE: Mark Butler, Labor MP for Port Adelaide, you’re the opposition spokesman for the environment and climate change. MARK BUTLER: I am. Good morning to everyone. COMPERE: Mark Butler were you happy with Senator Conroy’s outburst in Senate Estimates yesterday? He accused General Campbell of taking part in a political cover up. He managed to remain calm during all of that however he did say he took extreme offence at that statement. I think it was trying to turn it into a scene from a few good men with Jack Nicholson. Were you satisfied with Senator Conroy’s performance? MARK BUTLER: Well I think Senate Estimates do get pretty heated and I’ve seen examples of that over the years and clearly it did get pretty heated yesterday. I think the important thing is that the opposition’s focus was on the government. Particularly about what they are telling the Australian people and the Australian Parliament for that matter. But I think it got pretty heated yesterday and I think the important thing is that Senator Conroy has withdrawn the remarks and we are moving on. COMPERE: This Manus Island is a creation of the labor party. That detention centre was your idea and it was extended under Kevin Rudd. MARK BUTLER: Well that’s right. Although Manus Island might be in PNG and the tragedy that occurred last week might have occurred in PNG this government and this minister in particular has a very clear responsibility to ensure that things run properly at the Manus facility. Two things have become very clear that, the first that Scott Morrison has lost control over the operation on Manus, and secondly the subject of the debate yesterday is that Scott Morrison, the Government won’t be upfront with the parliament or Australian people about what he knew and when he knew it. I think best exemplified by the fact that he put a statement out in the middle of Saturday night over a critical issue associated with this tragedy when it was quite clear that he knew of the change in details many, many hours earlier. COMPERE: Well let’s just have a little snapshot of Senator Conroy in estimates yesterday. (Audio Clip) COMPERE: Christopher Pyne would you accept there is a bit of faux outrage over this that that is par for the course of Senate Estimates hearings particularly late at night when everyone can be a little bit tired. CHRISTOPHER PYNE: No it isn’t and Mark Butler might like to move on quickly from this imbroglio but the trust is that politicians speak to politicians in a particular way but Lieutenant General Campbell is a serving officer doing his job and it is completely unacceptable for Senator Controy to treat him the way that he did yesterday and Bill Shorten needs to apologise on behalf of Senator Conroy and the Labor Party. It’s not enough just to withraw the statement an apology is required. Bill Shorten needs to start showing some spine, some leadership. Being Leader of the Opposition isn’t easy, he’s not just going to coast into the Prime Ministership he has to make sure he’s doing what leaders do which is expecting Senator Conroy to apologise and himself apologising. COMPERE: Well according to the latest polls Bill Shorten is actually a pretty good chance of winning the next election should he hold these figures up and maybe a lot of that dip in the polls for your government is due to the signals you’ve been sending on the Aged Pension. Do you have a problem with South Australian’s working until they’re 70? CHRISTOPHER PYNE: Well we’re three years from an election so I wouldn’t get too excited about one poll five months from the last election. Well the Aged Pension, we haven’t made any announcements about the age of the Aged Pension at all but we do have to have a conversation in Australia about what we can afford in the next 20 – 30 years about taxpayers outlay. Now Labor never had this conversation. COMPERE: Why do we have to have all these conversations after the election Chris Pyne? CHRISTOPHER PYNE: Well we’ve been having them for years. Peter Costello and John Howard initiated an intergenerational report for this reason because Labor’s view is that they should fund every idea that is floating past, that they should borrow money to do it or they should just increase taxes. That’s Jay Weatherill’s view, that’s Mark Butler’s view. That’s not our view. COMPERE: I don’t remember Tony Abbott saying vote for us and we think we’ll put the Aged Pension up to 70. CHRISTOPHER PYNE: We haven’t announced that. COMPERE: You’re flying a lot of kites are you not Chris Pyne. A well worn political tactic. CHRISTOPHER PYNE: No, I think what we’re doing is explaining to the Australian public that Labor kept increasing their taxes they had borrowings going to $667 billion. They left $123 billion of deficits and they never made the difficult decisions about where we can spend and where we can’t spend. COMPERE: Christopher Pyne is the flaw in this argument, oh we’re all living longer therefore age of the pension should go up. Is the flaw in this argument is exposed for people who work with their hands. Labourers. Because now well the labourer might well live to 80 his body is probably shot to pieces about 50 – 55. So the idea that a labourer can continue working until their 70. This blunt rule that applies to the Aged Pension, is quite unfair. CHRISTOPHER PYNE: Well nobody has increased the Aged Pension to 70 so you’re talking David as though has been done and it hasn’t been done. COMPERE: I thought we were having a conversation, Chris Pyne? CHRISTOPHER PYNE: Well I’m trying to have a conversation… COMPERE: Do you see that that blunt, arbitrary rule of getting the Aged Pension at 70 may be lifted and that is very unfair for people who work physically. For labourers. CHRISTOPHER PYNE: I think the public understands that the aged pension age was set in 1908 when the life expectancy was 55 and the age pension was set at 65 in 1908. And they now realise that life expectancy is 85 and yet we’ve never had a discussion about whether we should COMPERE: While we’re having this discussion, what do you think it should be set at? CHRISTOPHER PYNE: Well I’m very comfortable with the current arrangements but I think’s it perfectly reasonable to have a discussion about the next 20 or 30 years and what the taxpayer can afford. The more important issue today is whether Bill Shorten will measure to being leader of the opposition and demand that Senator Conroy apologise… COMPERE: If you’re a brick or a sparky or a chippie or a plasterer and your knees are wonky and you’re looking at the pension at 65 they might not give two hoots about whether Bill Shorten should apologise. CHRISTOPHER PYNE: Well there’s no policy to increase the aged pension. COMPERE: Mark Butler… MARK BUTLER: I’m still here Yes I know that Mark Butler CHRISTOPHER PYNE: He’s remaining very quiet because he doesn’t want to be asked whether he should apologise to Lieutenant General Angus Campbell for Senator Conroy’s rude behaviour. MARK BUTLER: Well can I just say that I agree with Christopher on just one point that no-one’s focusing too much on one newspoll. We all shudder to think how many Newspoll’s we’re going to have to endure between now and the next election. But the reason why this new Prime Minister is doing so badly in all of the polls I think is because people are taking the view that his is not the government he said it would be. He said very clearly before the last election that there would be no change to pension arrangements under his government, leaving aside all the questions now about the commitments he made around health and education policy. We did have a discussion aged pension arrangements in the last Government. A very gradual lift to 67 of the age of eligibility which doesn’t even start into 2017 and goes well into the next decade in exchange for a very significant increase into the amount of the pension. The largest ever increase in the amount of the pension. So why Joe Hockey is floating this idea of increasing the pension age to 70 years before we actually go through the next phase of pension arrangements in Australia is utterly beyond me. COMPERE: A question to from one ouf our listeners in eden hills to both of you. At what age do both of you get your pension. When do you qualify? MARK BUTLER: Well I don’t get the pension COMPERE: Parliamentary Super I suppose MARK BUTLER: I don’t get Parliamentary Super because I was elected after the Parliamentary Super Scheme was abolished. I’m part of the defined contributions scheme that came into effect in the early 1990s for all Australian workers. COMPERE: When can you access that? MARK BUTLER: I don’t know. I think it’s 60. I think all Australian workers can access their super rat 60 but I’m not sure. COMPERE: I thought it was 55 but anyway. Chris Pyne, when do you get your super? CHRISTOPHER PYNE: I think Mark Butler will find that it’s 55. COMPERE: When do you get your super? CHRISTOPHER PYNE: I get my super as soon as I’m defeated or retired from Parliament. But at the age of 47 hopefully I’ll last another 8 years and I’ll get it at exactly the same time as every other person who gets a superannuation. COMPERE: No, but if you got defeated at 24… CHRISTOPHER PYNE: I’m not planning on being defeated. COMPERE: No I know that. Christopher Pyne thank you for talking to us. CHRISTOPHER PYNE: Thankyou COMPERE: We know you’re not planning on being defeated Education Minister. Mark Butler thankyou. MARK BUTLER: Thankyou. CHRISTOPHER PYNE: It’s a pleasure. [ends]