ABC 891

SUBJECT: Funding for political parties; Clean energy finance corporation E&OE............................... Greetings omitted. Presenter: Now we know neither of you are going to have a fight this morning over the fact that you’ve both signed off on millions of dollars of tax payer funds for your election campaigns. Correct? Mark Butler? Mark Butler: Well I think what we’ve done is work over a pretty extended period of time to find a bipartisan agreement to a range of things that have been the subject of debate in our Party. Disclosure thresholds for donations so the amount of donation that needs to be publicly disclosed, a ban on foreign donations, restricting anonymous donations, more regular reporting. I think this package is one that probably doesn’t give Christopher everything he wants, it doesn’t give me everything I want but it’s something that gives stability and sustainability to electoral reform and I think that’s a really important thing for our system. Presenter: Chris Pyne, you won’t be describing this as a big fat new tax will you? Christopher Pyne: Well the Coalition hasn’t seen… Presenter: You won’t be mentioning pink batts. Pyne: Well the Coalition hasn’t signed off on any changes to the Electoral Act at this stage. The Government still hasn’t presented us with the Bills, they haven’t been to the Parliament, there’s been no debate in the Parliament. Now the usual process is the Bills are produced, they lay on the table while the Coalition goes through its processes of the Party Room and the Shadow Cabinet. The only thing that I know about these reforms is what I’ve been reading in the paper and what I hear in the corridor. But I’m yet to actually see a final Bill. I do of course support public funding and I think that is an important part of our democracy. But we, the Coalition hasn’t signed off on this proposal because we are yet to have it go through our Party processes. I know that Labor is proposing it and I think unfortunately in the Labor Caucus it’s getting caught up in a row about Kevin Rudd and Julia Gillard’s leadership which was down on the agenda again this week. Presenter: Is there any real possibility that the Coalition will oppose these measures? Pyne: Well the measures that you’re talking about are what I’ve seen in the paper and what I hear around the corridors. In terms of disclosure the threshold proposed is five thousand dollars, that seems a reasonable threshold but I am yet to have a final Bill. In terms of funding for political parties… Presenter: And you don’t have a problem with increased public funding of political parties? Pyne: Well it is hard for me to say one way or the other David because I haven’t actually seen these Bills. Presenter: It doesn’t sound like you’re upset about it. Pyne: Well I can’t really be accused of being in favour or against something when I don’t, haven’t seen the Bill. The Labor Party has apparently gone through its Party Room and John Faulkner led a revolt against it. I think they are a long way from finalising this matter. Presenter: Mark? Well let’s just put that back to Mark Butler. Is this a done deal? And as a leading light in the Left do you have concerns about it? Butler: Well as I said this is a package that doesn’t I think give the Labor Party and me everything we want and probably the Liberal Party everything they want… Presenter: Well it gives you an extra nine million dollars… Butler: I’ll come to that point. Major elements of the Bill though are about how election donations work and how they’re disclosed and what sort of donations can be made in this system and what can’t and that has been something that’s been debated now for probably twelve or thirteen years. Presenter: Can’t you do that without granting yourself an extra nine million dollars? Butler: Well let me come to that. But I just want to make the point that getting an agreement between the two major parties, and even if Christopher hasn’t seen this, this has been a matter negotiated with the relevant Shadow Ministers and the Party organisation of the Liberal Party. So there is an agreement between the major parties as I understand it about the major elements. That is important. What we see in some other countries like America and, frankly, some States of Australia is the electoral system being changed from electoral term to electoral term to suit the interests of one particular Party. I don’t think that’s a good thing. So getting bipartisan agreement is a positive thing. I also think that some element of public funding, as unpopular as sometimes these as things can be in the community, is also a good thing for our democracy. Because for every dollar you don’t have in public funding, Members of Parliament and Party machines are out there seeking to fundraise… Presenter: But they’re out there doing that anyway, aren’t they Mark Butler? Presenter: There won’t be any reduction in the amount of money they get from the private sector from their own campaigning will there? Butler: Well I think there will be. I mean, this at the end of the day is a zero sum game. In what you see in countries like America is that the Congressmen are elected every two years and they spend the vast bulk of their two year terms fundraising rather than representing the interests of their electorates. And I think this doesn’t completely fix that issue in Australia but I think it makes a substantial amount of progress in getting our electoral funding system into better shape. Presenter: Keith is calling from Victor Harbour, hello Keith. Caller: Look I’m pretty upset about this having a slice of the cake each way. They can’t do this and still accept we’ll call it donations from any sector. If they are going to go to the public purse, fine go to the public purse but do without every other donation that you hitherto have. Presenter: Just take the public money. Keith thank you very much for your call. Christopher Pyne, perhaps I think something you might have a strong view on, there is a report on the front page of The Australian today that the Clean Energy Finance Corporation is planning to write up to eight hundred million dollars in green loans. Is this the same Corporation that an Abbott Government would close down? Pyne: Well we are committed to closing down the ten billion dollar Clean Energy Finance Corporation because it’s a very bad idea. Essentially it uses taxpayers’ money to make unviable businesses viable and that is very bad public policy. Presenter: Are you worried that the Clean Energy Finance Corporation’s getting in there quick before you close it down? Pyne: Well that is a concern and that’s why Andrew Robb wrote to them at the beginning of the year saying that given the Prime Minister has called a seven month election and we now know there will be a poll on September 14th we would ask them not to make any grants before the election because we intended to abolish that ten billion dollar Clean Energy Finance Corporation. We can’t afford it, it’s bad public policy and the Clean Energy Finance Corporation should not give out eight hundred million dollars of loans to unviable businesses in order to make them viable. That’s not how taxpayers money should be spent. Presenter: Mark Butler, do critics of this have a point? And that is that some say we should be in a caretaker period, major decisions should not be made like this, we know when the election is going to be held. Butler: We have fixed terms in other Parliaments. I mean this is so arrogant. This Corporation is established by… Presenter: What is, the Corporation is arrogant? Butler: No no no. This idea from the Opposition. The Corporation is established by law of the Parliament. It has a statutory mandate to issue loans for clean energy projects on a commercial basis. So the law of the land tells this Corporation what it should be doing not the Opposition Leader. Yet the Liberal Party is so uber-confident that is has this election in the bag that it thinks it can already override the laws of the Parliament. I mean I wonder what other laws of the Parliament we are supposed to suspend in anticipation for this sort of certain victory that Christopher and his colleagues seem to be assuming. I am half expecting Christopher after this interview to come knocking on my door and expect me to handover my office, so certain is he that he is soon going to be a Cabinet Minister. Pyne: I think Mark Butler is starting to sound characteristic hysterical-ness that we are getting from Labor here in Canberra. The truth is that it would simply be prudent, it would simply be prudent, for the Clean Energy Finance Corporation to hold fire on spending eight hundred million dollars of taxpayer money before the election which is only 108 days away rather than rushing cash out the door to unviable businesses in order to make them viable when they know that there could be a change of government on September the 14th. That’s all we’re asking, Mark Butler is sounding hysterical about it. Presenter: And you wouldn’t really want his office. Yours has got more trees around it, is that a fair call? Pyne: I am very happy in the office I have now I can assure you. Presenter: And Mark Butler I know yours is a very fine part of Port Adelaide? Butler: I was talking about my office here in Parliament House. Presenter: Oh sorry sorry OK, not your Electorate Office. Mark Butler thank you very much for your time and before that Christopher Pyne. ENDS.