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SUBJECTS: Speakership E&OE……………………………………………………………………………………… Presenter: MP for Sturt and Shadow Minister for Education joins us now, Chris Pyne good morning to you. Pyne: Good morning Matt and Dave. Presenter: As Manager of Opposition Business in the House of Representatives, why are you now prepared to accept the vote of a person you didn’t think was suitable to be Speaker and that is Peter Slipper? Pyne: Well there’s a number of issues here, the first of course is that the Prime Minister has exhibited horrendous judgement yet again in the last 12 months by axing Harry Jenkins and replacing him with Peter Slipper and it all came crashing down last night, not by her hand, but the Speaker’s own hand. Yesterday she exhibited that bad judgement again by leading the Peter Slipper defence team in the Parliament and Peter Slipper had the good sense and judgement to resign last night but the allegations facing Craig Thomson. Presenter: You moved a motion of no confidence did you not, and they survived it by one vote. Pyne: Yes, by one vote. Presenter: The question is why do you now have confidence in him to the point where you obviously want his vote on the floor of the house? Pyne: Well the case of Craig Thomson and Peter Slipper are both very different. He was excluded from the Labor Caucus and now Labor want to have their cake and eat it too. They want to get credit for excluding him from the Caucus and then accept his vote on the floor of the Parliament. The voters in Fisher at the last election voted for a change of government, if Mr Slipper chooses to vote with us, which is a matter for him, then he’ll be reflecting the wishes of his electorate. Presenter: But Slipper is no longer a member of your Caucus. Pyne: But he left of his own accord. Presenter: Are you happy to have him back in the party? Pyne: He left of his own accord. Presenter: Are you happy to have him back in the party? Pyne: No I doubt that very much, I don’t think he’ll be applying… Presenter: So you don’t want him back in the party, you don’t think he should be Speaker, you think his behaviour on the version of your events you’re accepting is reprehensible and yet you’re happy to take his vote. Pyne: Well what I’ve said is that the difference between Craig Thomson and Peter Slipper is that the Labor Party is being hypocrites about it. They are saying they have excluded him from the Caucus and they want credit for that, they’re saying that a line has been crossed by Mr Thomson, they didn’t say a line had been crossed with Mr Slipper, in fact yesterday Julia Gillard exhibited her bad judgement yet again by continuing to defend Peter Slipper. Presenter: But didn’t your leader, Tony Abbott argue that Peter Slipper’s addiction to what he called, Mr Abbott called vile and antagonistic language that’s been revealed in text messages that are part of this court case shows that he is not a fit and proper person to be Speaker. Pyne: Well we had said from the very beginning that Peter Slipper should not be the Speaker because the Speaker should come from the Government benches, let’s not forget how we ended up here Matthew. It was a squalid deal that Julia Gillard did in order to bring a vote from the Coalition to the Speakership and deny us a Member on the floor of the House that’s what it was all about. Julia Gillard putting her own personal survival as usual ahead of good principle and good judgement and I think it’s fair to say she’s paid the price for that. Presenter: Why did Tony Abbott say that the Government should die of shame? And did he do that; was that a rush of blood? Or was he deliberately taunting the Prime Minister because as we know that was the insult made by Alan Jones against the Prime Minister saying that her father died of shame? Pyne: Well Tony Abbott has been saying that this Government should die of shame for months and months he said it many many times. The vast difference between saying the Government should die of shame for being as bad as it is, which it is, to what Alan Jones said which was quite unacceptable, crass and offensive and to try to conflate the two is a mistake. When he said that yesterday he wasn’t even thinking of what Alan Jones had said at all he was thinking about what he had said many many times about how the Government as bad as it is should die of shame. Presenter: (inaudible) Pyne: Well he wasn’t even, he wasn’t conflating what he said with what Alan Jones had said with his own remarks well of course he didn’t say what Alan Jones said. Presenter: How do you think our listeners view you and the other members of parliament as a result of the last 24 hours? Pyne: Well, look David that is a good question. This has been a horrendous Parliament. We have now had three Speakers in less than two years. But that was all because Julia Gillard chose to get rid of Harry Jenkins and replace him with Peter Slipper the Opposition didn’t support that, we voted against it, in fact you might remember I nominated nine members of the Labor Caucus to be Speaker but all of them had been told to sit on their hands and not to accept their nomination. That was a deliberate strategy. The 43rd Parliament has been a horror and as I said last night in one of my speeches I gave a few yesterday in the Chamber I promised the Clerks that the 44th Parliament will be a lot less dramatic than the 43rd Parliament, I think the Australian public would breathe a sigh of relief. We now have seven Independents sitting on the cross benches and the Government now has only 70 votes out of 150 in the Chamber. It is high time this farce was put an end to and an election was called to give the Australian public a chance to decide whether Labor or Liberal should govern in their own right and not with the pantomime that is the crossbench. Presenter: Lets go to Mark Butler now, I understand that you may or may not be able to stay with us Chris Pyne which is why we started with you because we are working with you which will be a busy day in the House as you are Manager of Opposition Business. But Mark Butler, Labor MP for Pt Adelaide Minister for Mental Health and Ageing morning to you. Butler: Morning and Happy World Mental health Day can I say at the beginning. Presenter: Thank you very much, Mark Butler why did you vote to support Peter Slipper as Speaker? Butler: Look well I don’t’ know Peter Slipper as well as many do but a number of people had worked with him for a long time because he’s been in Parliament since 1984 I think, testified at the time, people like Darrell Melham, Michael Danby and others about his capacity to do the job. Presenter: But, but you were aware of these text messages? Butler: No I wasn’t. Presenter: No, no, no. Butler: I wasn’t aware of these text messages until a few days ago. Presenter: If I could put the question to you Mark Butler. Butler: Well I’ve answered. Presenter: You’ve been aware of these text messages for the last 24, maybe 48 hours, they’ve been out in the public arena and then you were asked to vote on it. Butler: (inaudible) Presenter: You were aware of them and you voted along with the rest of the Labor Party to support this man to continue as Speaker. Why? Butler: Well, there were a number of speeches about them in the No Confidence Motion that the Opposition ran yesterday. I thought one of the really thoughtful speeches was given by Darryl Melham. He’s been here a long time and I guess sitting right up the back of the Parliament, he’s probably a furthest distance from the heat in this issue and said a couple of things. What I thought he said that was really important is that there are a number of different ways this question over Mr Slipper , or the question that existed yesterday at least , over Mr Slipper could be resolved. One is that the Court can reach its conclusions about the various bits of evidence including the text messages that it’s currently considering, considering in a reserved decision and once that is done, the Parliament can consider that decision and take appropriate action. Whether that’s to support Peter Slipper continuing in the role, if the Court finds in Mr Slipper’s favour or if it’s minded to, to express no confidence in him, give him an opportunity to put his case then have a vote. The other way we could go is that Mr Slipper could take a decision himself which is ultimately what he did last night. What Mr Melham said is dangerous is the idea that the Opposition would bring a No Confidence Motion on, effectively ambushing not just the government but also Mr Slipper with no opportunity on Mr Slipper’s part to put his case, in the glare of Question Time and do it really as a political stunt. Many would describe it yesterday as a Kangaroo Court and I think that was the wrong thing to do. Where we have ended up over the last 24 hours, is probably the best place. Presenter: Chris Pyne. Pyne: Look, just briefly because I’m sorry I have to sign off; I have to be somewhere else, which I am sorry about for the listeners. There have been 16 motions of no confidence moved against speakers in the last 50 years. The majority have been moved by the Labor Party so I’m not going to be lectured by the Labor Party about no confidence motions in the Speaker. A number of them were moved by Kim Beazley in fact, against Deputy Speakers as well. The truth is the Parliament decides who their Speaker should be. They are not the same as a High Court Judge and the Parliament made its decision yesterday and the Speaker then appropriately decided to resign while the Prime Minister decided to cling to him. Presenter: And now he’s a fit and proper person, now that he’s resigned, for you to accept his vote. Pyne: I think I have covered that issue, I do have to go, I’m sorry. Presenter: No that’s fair enough, Chris Pyne, thank you and he is the Manager of Opposition Business in the House of Representatives. Mark Butler I know you gave a long answer to David’s question but if we could just come back to that. The Labor party and the government was attacking Tony Abbott for, what they say, being they say a misogynist, they were aware of the texts, because they have been published and were available in court documents and they still defended Peter Slipper as Speaker as a fit and proper person. Correct? Butler: Well to be clear, the Prime Minister made it very clear in her speech and a number of other ministers have made this point, that the text messages that were revealed, I think over the weekend, were deeply offensive and deeply inappropriate. Presenter: But not misogynist? Butler: Well I think they were misogynist. Presenter: Well how can you vote to keep him in, if you are running a line about the Opposition Leader being sexist and being a misogynist, how can you then in good conscience turn around and say “oh well are going to vote for this guy to be speaker.” Butler: The point I was trying to make earlier is that the circumstances in which those text messages came to light are that there has been a court proceeding that has been going on for a considerable period of time, it’s finished, the Judge is now considering his decision I think it is, in the Federal Court and a decision will be made in fairly short course and what we were saying is that there are processes.. Presenter: Do you doubt the veracity of those text messages? Butler: No I don’t doubt the veracity of them but. Presenter: Well you don’t need a Court to tell you whether or not they are real. Butler: Well what we need is a court to tell us what broad circumstances that really have been the litigation against Mr Slipper. Presenter: So there might be a way of explaining away the text messages? Butler: No I don’t think there would be a way of explaining them away (inaudible) Presenter: Well if you can’t explain them away, you don’t need a court to tell you they are misogynist. You know that they are deeply offensive. Based on that, you can make a decision about him being the Speaker. Butler: The point we were making is today was that there is a proper process to go through to deal with these issues, now if the court takes a decision about the broad allegations made against Mr Slipper, including the text messages which are a part of those broad allegations. The Parliament as Mr Melham said I think most thoughtfully, the Parliament would then need to consider the position n in a deliberative way. Now Christopher said that there had been 16 no confidence motions, I haven’t been around as long as he has; he is probably right about that. But the hung Parliament makes the idea of a no confidence motion in the speaker a qualitatively different proposition to when there is a majority government, there are these no confidence motions largely as a political point scoring exercise. Presenter: And Darren Melham who you have quoted several times for his wisdom, he has resigned as ALP Caucus Chairman. Butler: After 8 years in the job, I think the longest caucus chairman we have had in history, and a very good caucus chair and a close friend of mine. Presenter: Ok. Why did he resign? Butler: Well I can’t look into Darren Melham’s mind; Tony Abbott tried to verbal him on a couple of different ground yesterday about why he has resigned. But what he said to the Caucus was that he thought 8 years was an appropriate period of time to leave to Caucus Chair and it was time to hand on to someone else. I can only take him at his word he is a man I think of great honesty and integrity. He has repeated those comments in the Parliament and beyond. Presenter: Minister thank you for joining us with Chris Pyne this morning. Butler: Thank you very much. Presenter: Labor MP for Port Adelaide, Minister for Mental Health. ENDS.