ABC 891

SUBJECTS: State politics, Newspoll, Bernard Finnigan

E&OE………………………………………………………………………………………

Mark Butler: Morning Gentlemen.

Journalist: and Chris Pyne Liberal MP for Sturt, good morning to you Chris Pyne.

Christopher Pyne: Good morning and I hope no one will be interrupting me today.

Journalist: Well, that’s right the last time we spoke to you...

Pyne: You know what happens.

Journalist: Interrupting Christopher is a hanging offence.

Pyne: Oh, what nonsense.

Journalist: Is there anything you want to say Mr Pyne?

Pyne: Oh dear that was a very silly moment, wasn’t it?

Journalist: Well for Cory…

Pyne: No, no the suggestion that he had to go because he interrupted me which of course had nothing to do with it whatsoever. You guys made a lot of that on Thursday and Friday.

Journalist: Are you saying Tony Abbott did not tell him that was one of his crimes? That he interrupted you?

Pyne: That certainly was not the reason Cory Bernardi resigned last week and I just note that you two made a great deal of it on Thursday and Friday. It was funny I must admit, but not very much close to the truth.

Journalist: Well, that’s actually not what we were told by people in Canberra reporting on this issue. 

Pyne: I think they were pulling your leg.

Journalist: Mmm.

Butler: The famous Liberal sources were in the newspaper saying that.

Pyne: They were pulling your leg.

Journalist: Chris Pyne though you’re the, Federal Liberal MP, but your state colleagues are troubled, they’ve been in back room turmoil, Isobel Redmond has made some major gaffes and yet, is in a very strong position, would you still be surprised if they rolled her?

Pyne: Look the Newspoll yesterday was very good for the Coalition in South Australia and what it indicates is that the South Australian public are desperate to get rid of a very bad government .  It would appear that Newspoll was taken of course as South Australia lost Olympic Dam, because of the combination of state and federal Labor bungling, they lost our AAA credit rating, Jay lost our AAA credit rating it went down to AA1, and of course we found out we had the biggest debt and deficit in the state even worse than the State Bank Disaster in 1993.  So, Labor has done a very bad job in this state and we could be a much better state and the public knows it.  Everywhere I go in my electorate, business people, small business people and average Australians tell me that this is a tough time and South Australians are doing it tough.

Journalist: Christopher Pyne you’ve managed to talk about a fantastic poll for the Liberal Party for the best part of a minute and not give any credit at all to Isobel Redmond.

Pyne: Well I think the South Australian Liberal Party has got a lot to do with how they are tracking and Isobel Redmond is a very popular Leader amongst the South Australian Public. But to be frank they have had six weeks of reasonably scrappy publicity and even in that time the South Australian public are indicating they want to get rid of a very, very bad government.

Journalist: So, even with Isobel Redmond there you can still do well in the polls.  But are you suggesting you could still do well in the polls with another leader as well?  In other words don’t draw anything about the leadership on this issue.

Pyne: No I’m not saying that at all, I think Isobel Redmond is doing a sterling job in difficult circumstances and the last six weeks have been difficult circumstances for the South Australian Liberal Party and anybody who..

Journalist: Most of it of their own making..

Pyne:  And anyone who said otherwise would not be telling the truth. But even in spite of the static that has been occurring..

Journalist: Most of it generated by her, would you agree?

Pyne: Well I’m not going to be drawn into that Matthew.  But even in spite of the static that has been going on the South Australian public know that Jay Weatherill and his government are insipid and weak and are presiding over a quick decline of the South Australian economy which will lead to higher unemployment and we’ll be the poorest state in the Commonwealth.

Journalist: All right.  Mark Butler Labor MP for Port Adelaide, how do you explain the vote in South Australia? Is this part of the federal disease? In other words is the federal Labor brand  on the nose to the point it is damaging the South Australian  Jay Weatherill Government?

Butler: Well, no, I don’t think that’s right. I think voters are wise and clever enough to distinguish between their views on a state government or opposition and their views on the equivalent Party at a federal level but what I think this poll does confirm is how tough it is going to be for state Labor to win a fourth term.  The bar just gets higher and higher, the longer you’ve been in Government and voters I think have a tendency to expect a bit of a turnover of government after three, four, five terms and it’s harder and harder for a Premier to win a fourth term, I think Newspoll confirms that but the difficulty in analysing Newspoll results for South Australia is they are not a snapshot poll, they are not a view at one time as the federal Newspoll and the Advertiser polls are.  This is a poll taken over several different weekends over a period of three months and the reports...

Journalist: It might have been worse for you according to the Newspoll

Butler: Well that’s right, the reports I’ve read indicate…

Journalist: So you are more on the nose?

Butler: There was a significant turn up over the last several weeks as the faceless men of the Liberal Party have been plotting Isobel’s over throw, while she’s been talking about the sacking of between a quarter and a third of South Australia’s public service so these things move about but I think the Premier and all of his Caucus understand that there’s going to be a very, very tough fight to win a fourth term in 2014.

Journalist: Jay Weatherill remains more popular than Mike Rann was just before he left.  Does that still vindicate the decision to replace him?

Butler: Oh look, absolutely.  I don’t think anyone seriously in the Labor movement, in the Labor Party who thinks that was not the right decision.  It was time for a fresh face, it was a very strong perception in the Party, in the Caucus, Jay was the fresh face we needed and I think the feedback I get, going around the community I represent, Port Adelaide, is that people think it was a very good selection and are very happy with Jay’s leadership.

Journalist: Although Lindsay Tanner, shifting the focus to the federal scene is saying that Labor moved far too quickly, it panicked when it came to Kevin Rudd, he was on the AM programme about 40-50 minutes ago telling us that what your colleagues did to Kevin Rudd is that a first term Prime Minister is expendable on the basis of an opinion poll. Do you agree with him?

Butler: Look I don’t agree with him. I’ve seen the reports of Lindsay’s book and there are a couple of dangers that former politicians fall into, the first is that they reach for the rose tinted glass and pretend that everything was tickety-boo when they were a Minister.

Journalist: No he hasn’t said that. He says that the Government had its problems, but it was nowhere as bad as Labor colleagues who knifed Kevin Rudd were describing it. It wasn’t nearly as bad as that and your party has set the precedent that first term Prime Ministers are expendable on the basis of a poll.

Butler: Well let me just say secondly I think there is a tendency in former politicians to over dramatise things and I think that’s particularly the case when they seek to sell books. Let me say this, I think the Labor Party has to be very, very careful in the way it treats its leaders. I think the community has sent them a message in New South Wales about that and some can read that message into the view of people in Federal Labor as well and I think all of us would be well served to heed that message and I do think there is a danger in former politicians seeking to draw these existential threats particularly about the Labor Party and I think they need to be read with a grain of salt.

Journalist: Let’s just close with both of you, Chris Pyne this is our midweek sort of snapshot of how we are travelling politically and federally. Chris Pyne is the Federal Liberal MP for Sturt in South Australia; Mark Butler, South Australian Federal Labor MP for Port Adelaide. To both of you, to Mark Butler first, should Bernard Finnigan resign from the Upper House of the State Parliament? If he does not, should the Labor Party continue to accept his vote? In other words should Jay Weatherill think that he cannot continue as a viable MP, then should he accept his vote on important votes?

Butler: Look I do think he should resign. There is a lot of talk about the presumption of innocence in these debates and I think that is a critically important legal principle to cherish and hold dear but it’s not the way in which people should be judged in terms of their capacity to hold high political office. I think that the charges facing Mr Finnigan are such that his capacity to hold high political office are gone and he should do the decent thing and resign from parliament.

Journalist: Should you accept his vote? There was a parallel debate over entirely different issues; these were issues about his time with his union but Craig Thomson as we know in Federal Parliament there was a big debate as to whether his vote should be accepted.

Butler: Look it’s not parallel in the sense that Craig Thomson is not facing charges. If you want to draw parallels then there was a parallel when Mal Colston who facing very serious charges in the Senate and the Howard Government still accepted Mal Colton’s vote-

Pyne: That’s not true actually. That’s false. I let you keep talking and I haven’t interrupted but that’s actually false. When the Howard Government rejected Mal Colston’s vote many, many months before he was charged with any offences at all and of course the Labor Party’s hypocrisy on Bernie Finnigan is absolutely breathtaking. They didn’t ask him to resign until it became public that it was Bernard Finnigan. The only reason they’ve asked him to resign now is because they are embarrassed about it because it’s in the newspapers. If they felt so strongly about it, why didn’t they ask him to resign some time ago when he was first charged?

Journalist: Well that would have identified him wouldn’t it? It would have breached the suppression order?

Pyne: The Labor Party’s hypocrisy on this has been absolutely breathtaking and…(inaudible)… in the Legislative Council and if the Labor Party had wanted to show any principle at all, then they would follow the lead of the Liberal Party in Canberra as we have said that if Craig Thomson votes with us, a member of the Coalition will absent themselves from the vote as I have done and make sure his vote is not counted and now Labor wants some credit for this.

Journalist: Mark Butler, could Jay Weatherill do that?

Butler: Look the only precedent that Christopher established in that is the high farce that was created with Tony Abbott and Christopher Pyne racing out of the Parliament. I do give credit to Christopher for winning that foot race. The term of endearment of the gazelle in Parliament.

Pyne: Why don’t you answer the question? Mark, just answer the question.

Butler: Look the Labor Party when Bernard Finnigan was charged suspended his membership of the party and I understand it has since lapsed that was all we could do at the time given the suppression order. Now the order has been lifted, the Premier has called on Mr Finnigan to do the decent thing and resign, ultimately until then he is free to exercise his vote as he chooses to do.

Journalist: We’ll have to leave it there. Thank you very much for your time this morning we very much appreciate it. The last voice you heard was Mark Butler, the Federal Member for Port Adelaide for Mental Health and Ageing and before that Christopher Pyne Liberal MP for Sturt and Manager of Opposition Business in the House of Reps. We want to maintain that Bernard Finnigan has maintained throughout this that he is innocent of the charges.

ENDS