ABC 891

SUBJECTS: BER bungle; Olympic Damn expansion doubts; EMA; Craig Thomson saga

E&OE………………………………………………………………………………………

Matthew Abraham: Cyber smart schools are getting rid of printed books despite $4 billion of taxpayers’ money being spent building 3472 libraries in the past three years. Penny Wong, it reveals here – the Australian says information it has says a federal parliamentary inquiry revealed quite a number of these new libraries don’t even have librarians. Is that another waste of money?

Wong: Oh, look, absolutely not. I’ve opened a number of these projects in schools and can I tell you families, parents and school communities are very happy to get the benefit of additional facilities. In terms of moving digital, first the school makes a decision to do that. It’s up to them. I understand it’s a very small proportion of schools are doing so, but even if they do so you’re still going to have to have spaces – working and learning spaces for students. If you go to the state library or the University of Adelaide Library you’ll see those sorts of spaces for students.

Abraham: But if you’re going to design a library for the future and there’s a very stark photo of the Henley High School Library with all the empty shelves, just not a book to be seen, just kids on lap tops, wouldn’t you be designing something that’s tailor made for the future and that is e-books?

Wong: Well, that’s up to schools and I have to say as someone who enjoys books I hope that we don’t lose all printed material because the experience of reading a book is a great thing to have that accessible as well as e-books. But I understand we’re talking about three schools out of 3000. Now, obviously down the track schools may choose to do something different. That’s a matter for them.

David Bevan: Christopher Pyne, there’s no doubt there’s been some waste, but the Government did have to get a lot of spending out there quickly to help the economy. Do you agree with Penny Wong at least on that front; that schools welcomed the buildings even if the use of those buildings change over the years?

Christopher Pyne: Look, I don’t. I think what happened is the pity of the Building the Education Revolution is it was so hopelessly mishandled by the Government – the then Minister for Education Julia Gillard and then Peter Garrett – because in the non-government schools sector schools got to decide how to spend the money and they got exactly what they wanted and most of them feel they got value for money. In the Government sector they were told what they were going to have. They didn’t have choices so many of them had buildings foisted on them like libraries and as we can see in the case of Henley High School or Henley School they would rather have had….

Bevan: To be fair to Henley High though that building was not a BER project. This is an old library they decided to get rid of.

Pyne: The truth in the Government school system is that many schools had plans for what they wanted, but got given cookie cut out buildings and I’ve been to buildings in Australia where there was a library built next door to the library they already had and they were using the old library because they couldn’t be bothered moving the books across to the new library. So there were lots of very bad examples of waste. That didn’t mean parents didn’t like that there was extra money being spent, but if I’d been the minister I would have spent it on quality teaching as well as building as well as some of the other issues that need to be dealt with in schooling like curriculum.

Bevan: Finance Minister Penny Wong, the front page of the financial review warns again that BHP appears increasingly unlikely to go ahead with the expansion of the Olympic Damn mine in South Australia. The headline is “boom under threat from higher costs. High energy and transport costs have made mining projects in Australia among the most expensive in the world to develop.” Is your government going to be the one that killed the goose that laid the golden egg?

Wong: While we’ve been in Government what we’ve seen is increased investment in Australia and the pipeline of investment has continued to grow to record levels and has now reached $500 billion in terms of projects that are approved or in the pipeline…..

Bevan: Minister, that is in the context of a world boom. According to the Fin Review we’ve actually lost market share in the last decade.

Wong: And you would anticipate you would see in response the commodities boom, you would see other countries seeking to increase supply just as Australia has. I simply say look at the numbers.

Bevan: Well they are.

Wong: Well, $500 billion. Have a look at what that has meant, how that growth has massively increased, including in the resources sector, even when we have the mining tax which Christopher opposes we’ve seen increased investment in resources. I just don’t think the numbers add up on this for those who are saying this is all doom and gloom.

Abraham: Minister, for South Australia though this is a big issue, Olympic Damn. We’ve been promised we’ve been on the cusp of a boom for the best part of a decade now and we don’t want to be faced with being on the cusp of a bust.

Wong: Look, I am very aware of how important Olympic Damn is for our state. I think we all are and I think on both sides of politics in this state there’s support for the project and certainly the Premier has been working very hard to bring that investment here. Ultimately it is a matter for BHP. We’ve our support for the project.

Pyne: Can I just comment on that?

Abraham: Sure.

Pyne: I think this is the most important issue facing South Australia. The most important issue since copper was discovered at Kapunda. Without Olympic Damn South Australia has the real potential to be a backwater. Now, it’s true since the Labor Government was elected labour costs have increased, the unions have more control, there’s less certainty about migration and visa laws….

Abraham: But there is also a difficult international climate. You would accept that?

Pyne: No, they’ve introduced a mining tax; they’ve introduced a carbon tax….

Wong: Oh, come on.

Pyne: Hang on; this is a very important issue. Stop playing politics on this. All South Australia’s future rests on Olympic Damn and the Government has let the unions back in control. Labour costs have increased. Energy costs have increased. There’s a carbon tax, there’s a mining tax, now there’s a Labor caucus committee to determine enterprise migration agreements, which is a sovereign risk to Australia. If BHP walks away from an Olympic Damn expansion it will be the Labor Government’s fault.

Wong: Goodness me, what a rant. What a rant.

Pyne: It’s completely true and you know it’s true and you’re terrified that it’s true.

Abraham: Penny Wong, no truth in anything?

Wong: Well, Christopher is very good at the rant and at the attack. Let’s get some facts here. First; investment has increased while we’ve been in Government. Massively.

Pyne: Olympic Damn is at risk.

Wong: I listened mostly to you. First, investment has increased across the country, including with the mining tax. I think it is a reasonable thing to say to wealthy miners, if you make very large profits, more of that should be shared with the people. I think that is a reasonable thing. Second on the committee, to suggest that it is a sovereign risk is ridiculous, it is a caucus committee to enable more engagement with caucus about a whole range of issues around how we spread the benefits of the boom. Third, in terms of migration, we’ve just had an enterprise migration agreement announced because we understand we want jobs for Australians but that when you have those peaks in the labour market, that we may need to supplement for the period of construction.

Abraham: When did you find out about the Roy Hill agreement, the 1,700 workers who are being-

Wong: The announcement of these agreements as a policy proposition was from memory in the ’11-’12 budget.

Abraham: …when did you find out about the specific 1,700 approval.

Wong: Not until it was announced, but that wouldn't be unusual.

Bevan: Did it take you by surprise?

Wong: No, it’s not unusual. I was aware that we have been in discussions for some time-

Bevan: Why did it cause such angst for your parliamentary colleagues?

Wong: Look, we’ve been in discussion with businesses some time about how you manage this boom. And this is the difference between us and the Opposition we actually get you have to manage this boom you have to find a way to spread its benefits, you have to find a way to manage labour supply.

Bevan: You weren’t surprised by the announcement. It’s the sort of thing we’ve been talking about for some time. So were you surprised when other members of your Parliamentary Caucus, like Doug Cameron, came out and they were all outraged?

Wong: Look, people have you know various priorities they want to press. I think actually it was a very good discussion.

Bevan: But were you surprised that he was outraged?

Wong: No. I mean Doug can speak for himself. But we had a very good discussion in Caucus.

Pyne: (Inaudible)

Wong: Let me finish. We had a very good discussing in Caucus about this. People put their views and obviously it was very strong views across the caucus and the cabinet about the importance of jobs in Australia. This is a project which has got over 8000 jobs. We are talking about an Enterprise Migration Agreement of 1700. I think it’s a reasonable thing the caucus has to discuss how is it and what are the ways in which we can ensure we get these jobs to Australia first and I thought it was very useful discussion.

Abraham: Chris Pyne, finally Tony Abbott is he conceding now that the Liberal Party went too far in its attack on Craig Thomson and others? In other words, its muscled up to much and it’s starting to emerge as a big negative in the polls.

Pyne: Absolutely not. It is perfectly legitimate for the Coalition to press the Prime Minister particularly about the issue to do with Craig Thomson and also the Member for Dobell. We’re talking about the loss of half a million dollars of Health Services Union members. And honestly, David, being lectured by the Labor Party on toughening up is like being lectured by Caligula on family values. These are the people who pursued Archbishop Hollingworth and hounded him from office even though he had done nothing himself. The things they’ve said about Mal Colston are almost unrepeatable for children’s ears listening to this program and they also pursued Sir John Kerr out of office as John Kerr as Governor General because he sacked them.

Abraham: We’re going back a bit there!

Pyne: Well we’re not going back very far with Archbishop Hollingworth. And Mark Latham last Monday night admitted he was part of an organised band whose job was to hound the Governor General from office. So please hold the faux outrage from the Labor Party.

Abraham: You better respond.

Wong: That sort of topped the previous rant - seriously calling the Government Caligula?

Pyne: No, I said it’s like being lectured by the Labor Party, like being lectured by Caligula on family values.

Abraham: I don’t think he’s planning on having a white horse in the Senate

Wong: I just want to make this point. Christopher that kind of insult is exactly the sort of brutal language I think that people are reacting to.

Pyne: Don’t lecture me Penny.

Abraham: Hang on; you’ve had your say, Christopher Pyne. I think we will allow Penny Wong to have a say and then we will wrap it up.

Wong: I think there is a distinction between whatever people might think of these allegations and I’ve been on your program previously and said if these allegations are true then they are manifestly wrong and there should be a proper process of investigation and appropriate penalty imposed by the courts. But I don’t think we need (inaudible) –Australians are a little tired of the incessant personal attacks and they actually want us to talk about things that are relevant to them.

Abraham: And Senator, thank you for talking to us, Finance Minister South Australian Senator Penny Wong thank you.

Wong: Thank you.

Bevan: Christopher Pyne Liberal MP for Sturt and Manager of Opposition Business in the House.

Pyne: Always a pleasure.

ENDS