2GB Sydney

CHRISTOPHER PYNE: Good to see you in Canberra, mate.

BEN FORDHAM: Raring and ready to go for 2017. Fired up.

CHRISTOPHER PYNE: You’re back.

ANTHONY ALBANESE: Absolutely.

BEN FORDHAM: I am back.

CHRISTOPHER PYNE: Did you win your last Walkley when you used to work here, or was that …

BEN FORDHAM: Oh, what a great segue into the Walkley. There you go. Thank you. See? See what he did there?

CHRISTOPHER PYNE: He was one of the youngest winners of a Walkley ever.

ANTHONY ALBANESE: Don’t raise that, mate. If Karl Stefanovic is listening, he’ll just burst into tears.

BEN FORDHAM: [Laughs] He’ll want two. He’ll want two.

CHRISTOPHER PYNE: He’s got a Logie though.

ANTHONY ALBANESE: My media advisor has one too, just saying.

BEN FORDHAM: I had a- Matthew Franklin. That’s right.

ANTHONY ALBANESE: That’s right.

BEN FORDHAM: … working for The Australian newspaper. I did have a flashback today, just quickly before we get down to business, of being a 20 year old, so 20 years ago, and having my boss at Radio 2UE say you’re going off to work in the press gallery in Canberra, and I said no, I’m not, and she said yes, you are, and I came off and drove the red Mitsubishi Colt containing all of my worldly possessions and turning up in this place. I know you guys are here every day, but it is something special walking into this building.

ANTHONY ALBANESE: It’s a fantastic building. I worked in the Old Parliament House, and I’ve got to say this structure is the most visited building in Australia as well. It’s a great tourist attraction, and I think it says a lot about Australia as well, the whole design of people being able to walk over it is something that we’ve managed to protect in spite of some of the …

BEN FORDHAM: [Interrupts] But aren’t they going to be taking that away with a fence?

ANTHONY ALBANESE: No, you’ll still be able to get to the top.

BEN FORDHAM: Aren’t they building a Donald Trump-style wall around the joint?

CHRISTOPHER PYNE: You’ll still be able to get to the top but you won’t be able to walk over it, but you haven’t been able to for years because of, you know, terrorists and stuff.

ANTHONY ALBANESE: But you can walk up the side now.

CHRISTOPHER PYNE: [Talks over] I’ve sat next to you at a lunch.

BEN FORDHAM: But is there going to be a fence?

ANTHONY ALBANESE: There will be a fence.

CHRISTOPHER PYNE: There has to be.

BEN FORDHAM: What did you say, you sat next to me at a lunch, 20 years ago?

CHRISTOPHER PYNE: A lunch in the great hall, remember that?

BEN FORDHAM: Yeah, I do.

CHRISTOPHER PYNE: Amanda Vanstone was your big fan. She said you’ve got to meet this guy, Ben Fordham.

BEN FORDHAM: True story. How does he remember this stuff?

ANTHONY ALBANESE: But you didn’t remember him, mate.

CHRISTOPHER PYNE: He doesn’t remember me.

[Laughter]

BEN FORDHAM: I remembered Amanda Vanstone.

ANTHONY ALBANESE: That’s the key.

CHRISTOPHER PYNE: That’s why I keep winning elections, I’ve got a good memory.

ANTHONY ALBANESE: That’s why you keep winning preselections.

BEN FORDHAM: Now listen, Christopher, [indistinct] right, now I can look you in the eyes, right, because you’re right across from me. Did you put a gentle rocket up Malcolm Turnbull to get him to fire up in Question Time today?

CHRISTOPHER PYNE: He did a great job. I don’t think Bill Shorten was expecting that, so it was great.

BEN FORDHAM: Did you put a gentle rocket up Malcolm Turnbull? Did you have a talk to him about that? Because it had you written all over it.

CHRISTOPHER PYNE: Well I am the Leader of the House so we talk tactics all the time throughout Question Time. We had to decide whether we did or didn’t speak on the suspension. Sometimes we shut it down. John Howard often used to take them and use them as an opportunity to explain our position, and I thought it was a good opportunity to do that today and Malcolm did a sensational job. I think Bill was a bit shocked.

BEN FORDHAM: Where’s this Malcolm Turnbull that we saw this afternoon? Where’s he been for the last 18 months?

CHRISTOPHER PYNE: He’s been there all the time.

BEN FORDHAM: No he hasn’t.

CHRISTOPHER PYNE: You haven’t been looking closely.

BEN FORDHAM: I have been looking very closely.

CHRISTOPHER PYNE: The person who really enjoyed it, of course, was Anthony. He really enjoyed the speech.

BEN FORDHAM: Well I noticed that there were people on the Labor side laughing as he was ripping into Bill Shorten.

CHRISTOPHER PYNE: They wouldn’t do that, that’s shocking.

ANTHONY ALBANESE: Well Bill Shorten ripped into Malcolm Turnbull and that was a return of serve, and then of course Jenny Macklin outlined …

CHRISTOPHER PYNE: [Interrupts] Yeah, she took us apart.

ANTHONY ALBANESE: Well, she outlined that what it’s about isn’t actually Malcolm or Bill, it’s actually about those pensioners who are going to lose- a million of them, a million Australians will be worse off as a result of – a million Australian families – as a result of the announcement that was made today.

CHRISTOPHER PYNE: Rubbish.

BEN FORDHAM: Why is it rubbish?

CHRISTOPHER PYNE: Well the reality is that Labor supported these changes before the election …

ANTHONY ALBANESE: [Talks over] That’s not right, this is part of the 2014 budget …

CHRISTOPHER PYNE: … and as usual have changed their mind, as they always do. But what we’re trying to do is get a million families better off in terms of child care, which is unaffordable under Labor. The lowest income people will be paying $15 a day for child care, which means they’ll be able to get back to work if they want to work in terms of more days of work, lifting their incomes, lifting their household- this is great news in Sydney.

BEN FORDHAM: The other aspect to it is the Youth Allowance. So young people claiming Youth Allowance will have to wait four weeks. I think it was originally suggested it would be six weeks when it was floated back in 2014. Is that fair, Albo? That’s fair enough, isn’t it, that if you’re aged 22 to 24 you’ll go off the dole and onto Youth Allowance, which is less, or …

ANTHONY ALBANESE: [Interrupts] Well it’s not fair enough if you have no income over that period. What are you going to do, Ben? If you have zero income for four weeks, what do you do? How do you buy food? How do you pay rent? How do you look for a job?

BEN FORDHAM: [Talks over] Well I suppose it motivates you to go out there and find some work.

ANTHONY ALBANESE: Well on that basis you’d never give anyone anything, because they would be really motivated then. But four weeks, people who don’t have someone else to look after them won’t have any income at all.

CHRISTOPHER PYNE: We’re not talking about 16 year olds, we’re talking about people aged 22 to 24.

ANTHONY ALBANESE: That’s the point – they won’t have any income at all for that period of time.

CHRISTOPHER PYNE: But we want them to be getting into training or getting into work as much as we can.

ANTHONY ALBANESE: We want people to be getting into training and work too, but those opportunities have to be there, and you can’t starve people into submission.

BEN FORDHAM: But I suppose, Albo, it reaches the point where you’ve got to say, well, where are we going to find some savings, where are we going to make this system sustainable? Because as it’s going it’s not sustainable, it’s not going to be sustainable. So it’s easy for you to say every time no we don’t want to do that …

ANTHONY ALBANESE: No, we’ve put up savings, Ben. How about you look at the capital gains tax and negative gearing proposals that we have that would also help deal …

CHRISTOPHER PYNE: They count taxes as savings, see this is the point.

ANTHONY ALBANESE: No, no, we’re changing the tax regime …

CHRISTOPHER PYNE: Taxes are not savings. ..

ANTHONY ALBANESE: … changing the tax regime so that- in terms of budget expenditures and revenues, and that would have an impact.

BEN FORDHAM: But what about in welfare, what are you doing in welfare?

ANTHONY ALBANESE: Well in welfare what we’re doing and we did, we made a number of changes. And indeed, in the omnibus bill we supported changes last year. But what we won’t support is changes which simply aren’t fair. And the decision today will mean less income not just for pensioners, but carers, disability support pensions, sole parent pensioners, Newstart recipients, all of those people.

CHRISTOPHER PYNE: Hang on, you’ve had a good run. The reality is before the last election, Labor put up a lot of so-called policies for the budget ending with a net $16.5 billion more spending. So Labor’s idea of savings measures was to go to an election saying we’re going to spend more. We’re going to put up taxes, which they think are savings, actually they’re other people’s money which they’re taking into the Federal Government and then spending and after all of these things that Chris Bowen talked about, you’re going to spend money - $16.5 billion more …

ANTHONY ALBANESE: It’s simply a matter of where your priorities are.

CHRISTOPHER PYNE: And of course, we’re in deficit …

ANTHONY ALBANESE: You have all these multinationals …

CHRISTOPHER PYNE: … that’s the money they have to borrow from overseas.

ANTHONY ALBANESE: Why don’t we get some multinationals to pay some tax?

CHRISTOPHER PYNE: That’s exactly what we’ve done.

ANTHONY ALBANESE: [Talks over]Why don’t we try and do that. You haven’t done that.

CHRISTOPHER PYNE: That’s exactly what we’ve done. Measures you opposed.

ANTHONY ALBANESE: You haven’t done that.

CHRISTOPHER PYNE: Measures you opposed. I mean this is hypocrisy from Bill Shorten.

ANTHONY ALBANESE: You haven’t done that. They’re getting a free ride from this Government because this Government has prioritised attacking the poorest people in our community.

BEN FORDHAM: Well, what are you going to do going forward as far as doing something about the ballooning welfare bill?

ANTHONY ALBANESE: Well the fact is that we think that there are issues there but they’re issues about proper targeting. What this does is hit people at the lowest end. At the lowest end.

BEN FORDHAM: But that’s where welfare it. That’s where welfare is directed.

ANTHONY ALBANESE: It’s not. It’s not and certainly not under this government and one of – I’ll tell you what welfare is, welfare is …

CHRISTOPHER PYNE: You think people with welfare incomes get more welfare than people with higher incomes?

ANTHONY ALBANESE: Well I’ll tell you what welfare is from the taxpayer. Welfare is negative gearing. That enables people to reduce their tax paid to the Government as a result of being able to compete against your first home buyer who’s struggling to get into the Sydney housing market.

CHRISTOPHER PYNE: But you can’t seriously be suggesting that people on higher incomes get more welfare than people on lower incomes?

ANTHONY ALBANESE: I’m suggesting that the negative gearing and capital gains tax and …

BEN FORDHAM: And there’s also been – let’s face it …

ANTHONY ALBANESE: … are a form of welfare.

BEN FORDHAM: … There’s been plenty of middle class welfare that probably came in in the end of the Howard era as well.

CHRISTOPHER PYNE: Which we are – we’re trying to pare that back and Labor never support that either.

ANTHONY ALBANESE: These are changes from Howard and Costello. Your minister said that today.

BEN FORDHAM: At least they’re trying to do something about it though.

ANTHONY ALBANESE: These are their changes. When they were in government …

CHRISTOPHER PYNE: The supplement that you are talking about, the Howard and Costello Government introduced when we have a $22 billion surplus in the budget.

ANTHONY ALBANESE: That’s right when you had the boom, rather than …

CHRISTOPHER PYNE: … now we have a deficit and debt thanks to you.

ANTHONY ALBANESE: … invest in education or invest in skills or invest in [indistinct].

CHRISTOPHER PYNE: Labor inherited a $22 billion surplus, money in the bank and after six years of Labor, we had a massive ballooning debt, we had a budget deficit because you don’t know how to stop spending money.

ANTHONY ALBANESE: That’s rubbish, Christopher.

CHRISTOPHER PYNE: I love you, Anthony but you don’t know how to stop spending money.

ANTHONY ALBANESE: We had something called – we had something called the Global Financial Crisis and since you’ve came to government …

CHRISTOPHER PYNE: You’re like the Paris Hilton of governments.

ANTHONY ALBANESE: But your debt is more now. You’ve octupled the deficit.

CHRISTOPHER PYNE: We were coming off your base.

ANTHONY ALBANESE: You’ve increased the deficit by eight times when there’s no global crisis.

CHRISTOPHER PYNE: So you were great financial managers were you?

ANTHONY ALBANESE: When there’s no global … We got Australia through the Global Financial Crisis.

CHRISTOPHER PYNE: Oh for goodness – Australians got Australia through the Global Financial Crisis.

ANTHONY ALBANESE: Two-hundred thousand jobs created.

CHRISTOPHER PYNE: Australian businesses got Australia through the Global Financial Crisis.

ANTHONY ALBANESE: As a direct result of our economic stimulus.

BEN FORDHAM: Righto …

ANTHONY ALBANESE: Recognised as the world’s best.

BEN FORDHAM: Let me see if I can find …

CHRISTOPHER PYNE: You’re just a big lefty spender.

BEN FORDHAM: Let me see if I can find something for you two to agree on and I don’t know whether you will. Is Ahmed Fahour, the boss of Australia Post being paid too much at $5.6 million a year?

CHRISTOPHER PYNE: Yes he is.

ANTHONY ALBANESE: I reckon the mob would absolutely say he is.

CHRISTOPHER PYNE: He is and that’s why the Prime Minister’s spoke to the chairman of Australia Post today and said …

BEN FORDHAM: He spoke to him?

ANTHONY ALBANESE: He appointed the board, he appointed the board. He’s done all this.

CHRISTOPHER PYNE: He said in the media that he thought the chairman and the board should reconsider Ahmed Fahour’s …

ANTHONY ALBANESE: The chairman and the board that he appointed?

CHRISTOPHER PYNE: Yeah, well, we appointed the board. We don’t pick the salary.

ANTHONY ALBANESE: He appointed the board…

CHRISTOPHER PYNE: Anthony, you’ve got to get facts right! We appoint the board and the chairman; they choose the salary. It’s too much. Needs to be reduced.

ANTHONY ALBANESE: Malcolm Turnbull put all his mates. He was the Communications Minister. He replaced all of the board …

CHRISTOPHER PYNE: The board has to consider it.

ANTHONY ALBANESE: Why has that happened in the first place?

BEN FORDHAM: Can I talk a call here from …

ANTHONY ALBANESE: [Talks over] Take some responsibility. It’s your board.

BEN FORDHAM: Kelly’s called in. Kelly.

CALLER KELLY: Oh, hi Ben. I need to take a Panadol right now listening to these two is like listening to two toddlers fighting over a toy. And you’re wondering why the Australian people have had enough of the major political parties and going elsewhere.

Honestly, what have they discussed today? What have they done today to help the average taxpayer with anything? With health, education, transport, infrastructure, climate change, anything! And all they do is attack each other, calling each other parasites and what not. We don’t care! We don’t care how you feel about each other. We want you to work together for the Australian public. You serve us. That’s what your job is. That’s why you get paid. That’s why you go to Parliament. We are fed up.

BEN FORDHAM: She’s got a point.

CHRISTOPHER PYNE: Well, I blame you [laughs].

BEN FORDHAM: Why?

CHRISTOPHER PYNE: Because you start this every time.

ANTHONY ALBANESE: [Laughs].

BEN FORDHAM: No, I asked you about the issues, and you guys feral each other.

CHRISTOPHER PYNE: You do. You try and …

BEN FORDHAM: But this interview is representative of what happens inside this Parliament.

CHRISTOPHER PYNE: You get Anthony all juiced up, everyone terribly excitable, and [indistinct] …

BEN FORDHAM: Juiced up?

ANTHONY ALBANESE: Juiced up?

BEN FORDHAM: What are you suggesting? He’s on performance enhancers?

ANTHONY ALBANESE: [Laughs].

CHRISTOPHER PYNE: But I do agree with the caller …

ANTHONY ALBANESE: We don’t even get a cup of tea.

CHRISTOPHER PYNE: I mean, we’ve done three things today in this Parliament that the caller needs to know about. One, we’ve introduced an amendment to the Australian Building and Construction Commission, courtesy of Derryn Hinch changing his mind about the timing of when that should begin, the transition period, which is very important in terms of productivity in the building and construction industry. The last time there was an ABCC, productivity improved by 16 per cent. We’ve introduced the childcare reforms, massive childcare reforms, and of course the tax, the enterprise tax scheme. So we’ve been very busy [indistinct] …

ANTHONY ALBANESE: And what I’ve been doing today, I’ve been speaking about an infrastructure report – so one of the comments that your listener made – talking about high speed rail, talking about the need to deal with urban congestion in our cities, public transport, and that was actually quite a good debate, from both sides in the Parliament. You tend to get a focus on the sort of argy-bargy, but a lot of the time, there’s agreement.

CHRISTOPHER PYNE: Correct.

ANTHONY ALBANESE: We get bagged all the time for agreeing with each other too much.

CHRISTOPHER PYNE: Being too friendly. Being too friendly.

BEN FORDHAM: But what we see on the news is you guys ripping each other head off, and I’ve got to admit, I kind of enjoyed seeing Malcolm Turnbull finally find a bit of ticker and some mongrel today. We’ll talk to you guys next week. You go and reflect over what Kelly had to say.

CHRISTOPHER PYNE: Kelly had a good point to make.

ANTHONY ALBANESE: She did, and we’ll try to be nicer next week, and you have to be nicer in the questions you ask.

BEN FORDHAM: [Laughs] Anthony Albanese and Christopher Pyne. We’ll talk to them next week.